Tidbits of Curiosity

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Not necessarily. Like I said, Fall of Gondolin book came out.

Yeah... unfortunately there's not really new material in there. It's possible that the 'evolution of the story' section has some, but the bulk of it is just the versions told in the Book of Lost Tales, 1930s Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales.

Oh, but you said you've not read HoME, so yes! The Fall contains quite a lot of M[a]eglin, along with a heck of a lot of details about Gondolin itself. You'll like it.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Yeah... unfortunately there's not really new material in there. It's possible that the 'evolution of the story' section has some, but the bulk of it is just the versions told in the Book of Lost Tales, 1930s Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales.

Oh, but you said you've not read HoME, so yes! The Fall contains quite a lot of M[a]eglin, along with a heck of a lot of details about Gondolin itself. You'll like it.

hS

Of course there would be. He is the main reason it happened.



And that's what I'm counting on. It would probably be a while before it's translated into my language, though.

[Urwen]

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

Interesting. I would say that they do actually occupy much the same position - while not playing a particularly large part in the great events (Maeglin is actually off trying to kidnap Idril at the time), they're the driving force that leads to those events. Maeglin betrays Gondolin, of course; meanwhile Idril commits her own act of arguable treason, going against her father's express wishes to dig an escape tunnel. (She actually tells the people working on it that she'll square it with her dad - but doesn't, because she knows he won't do it!)

Ultimately, the hero of the story still winds up being Tuor, while Morgoth remains as the ultimate villain. But their actions are enabled and pushed forward by the other two.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Interesting. I would say that they do actually occupy much the same position - while not playing a particularly large part in the great events (Maeglin is actually off trying to kidnap Idril at the time), they're the driving force that leads to those events. Maeglin betrays Gondolin, of course; meanwhile Idril commits her own act of arguable treason, going against her father's express wishes to dig an escape tunnel. (She actually tells the people working on it that she'll square it with her dad - but doesn't, because she knows he won't do it!)

Ultimately, the hero of the story still winds up being Tuor, while Morgoth remains as the ultimate villain. But their actions are enabled and pushed forward by the other two.

hS

Cross posted. Interesting thoughts. I saw Idril almlst like the Melian of Gondolin, but I guess you're right: Melian is on Thingol's level and her advice is heeded, while Idril is much below, at the level of Maeglin.

[Urwen]

I think so. Their actions led to good things. Without Maeglin, War of Wrath wouldn't have happened. Without Gollum, the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I think so. Their actions led to good things. Without Maeglin, War of Wrath wouldn't have happened. Without Gollum, the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed.

A [complex] evil that leads to good - but still remains evil?

I was also thinking about their position and eventual choices. Alienated from their society (to different degrees, of course), hiding away from the world, lusting after an unattainable object, betraying the only other thing that matters in order to satisfy the lust by willingly going over to the enemy, eventually dying in a desperate bid for their desire.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

Haven't read it, but here's an idea based on The Silm. Morgoth is always the big bad, the ultimate evil. Elves and Men and Dwarves are never the ultimate villains of the story because none are wholly villains. However, Morgoth often takes the backstage when he is so far away from the development of the plot, so each story has it's own set of antagonists, which in proportion may not be quite as big of a bad but a more relevant bad.

Do you find that Maeglin's story and role seems to resemble that of Gollum?