LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 06 - The King of the Golden Hall

[Formendacil]

Two things stood out for me on this reread:

First, does Gandalf have control of the weather or just really good timing?

Originally Posted by The King of the Golden Hall

"...I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving-man till the lightning falls!"

He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly as dark as night.

And also:

Originally Posted by The King of the Golden Hall

"...that fool, Háma, has betrayed us!" There was a flash as if lightning had cloven the roof.

At first blush, this seems like nothing more than Gandalf exhibiting power as a wizard--not entirely unlike his actions at Bag End when Bilbo needing some convincing to pass along the Ring. But this is an actual storm. Witness what happens when Théoden is convinced, just a bit later, to step outside:

Originally Posted by The King of the Golden Hall

From the porch upon the top of the high terrace they could see beyond the stream the green fields of Rohan fading into distant grey. Curtains of wind-blown rain were slanting down. The sky above and to the west was still dark with thunder, and lightning far away flickered among the tops of hidden hills. But the wind had shifted to the north, and already the storm that had come out of the East was receding, rolling away to the sea.

Quite apart from the interesting point that could be made about the fact that--in the same sentence--Tolkien leaves "north" not-capitalised and capitalises "East"--I have no memory of ever noticing that the thunder and lightning when Gandalf dominates the hall is tied to an actual storm outside. And, (admittedly, I only thumbed through quickly), I couldn't find anything in the narration prior to entering the hall that indicated it was going to storm.

Given its dramatic position in the chapter, the question for me arises: is this just a case of literary timeliness or did Gandalf somehow influence the weather to line up with the drama of the moment? As an emissary of the Valar, operating now post-Moria in a heightened state of openness, it doesn't seem *entirely* implausible that Manwë has a hand here--but, should we then make something of the fact that this storm rose in the capital-E East?


Setting aside meteorlogical concerns, I noticed Aragorn a lot this chapter (and I appear not to have been the only one: he's all over this thread). I don't have a new opinion to offer about his stubborn pride outside the doors regarding Andúril, but after the last few chapters and what I was noticing there, his prominence in a chapter where he doesn't really have anything to DO stuck out to me. In terms of action, this chapter is chiefly about Gandalf, Théoden, and Gríma--with Háma playing an interesting minor key note. Aragorn, by contrast, hasn't got much more to do than stand around and look tall.

Nonetheless, he is quite prominent here. It's partly that he's our point-of-view character, though he shares that role with Gimli, who functions as the next-best thing to a hobbit when it comes to being down-to-earth. I think this is simply me realising what has probably been obvious to many: Aragorn is our hero in this part of the tale. Younger me was so used to the idea of Frodo as the main character and distracted by the chapters focussing on Merry and Pippin that I'd missed that point, but in the non-Frodo split of the story, the "conventional epic," Aragorn is the not-quite-conventional hero.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Given its dramatic position in the chapter, the question for me arises: is this just a case of literary timeliness or did Gandalf somehow influence the weather to line up with the drama of the moment? As an emissary of the Valar, operating now post-Moria in a heightened state of openness, it doesn't seem *entirely* implausible that Manwë has a hand here--but, should we then make something of the fact that this storm rose in the capital-E East?

I recall some other mentions of controlling weather. Boromir mentions on Caradhras the belief that Sauron controls the weather on the borders of Mordor - something which may well be true to an extent considering his stunt during the Battle for Gondor (the extent marked by the early southern wind which was obviously against his plans). In the same part of the story, the Fellowship debates whether their weather-related misfortunes are due to natural or unnatural causes. Boromir seems to lean towards intentional malingering; Aragorn and Gimli imply that the causes are likely natural but may be influenced by forces other than Sauron; Gandalf's sage advice is that the cause doesn't make a difference in their immediate decision. The movie, if I recall correctly, takes this up a notch and has Saruman chanting incantations that seem to make the rocks fall and the wind blow, but there doesn't seem anything in the books to positively prove Saruman's involvement.

Gandalf's "wizard display", paticularly as a bearer of Narya and the one with power over fire, could reasonably include some form of play with light and shadow, even some lightning. These elements are seen in association with his "magic" quite frequently. But the real storm you mention does make me wonder - after all just a short time before Legolas sees the sunshine reflect off the roofs in Edoras. Was it a really fast-moving storm, hitting Edoras quite suddenly and passing by within half an hour?

As for the significance of the East... In what way would the East be interested in Edoras to send a storm there? Or what could have occurred eastwards to make the storm originate from an "unnatural" cause at that time? Frodo and Sam are still wandering around, mostly unnoticed, not attracting any attention. Faramir's warriors could be up to something that would invite Sauron's anger, but aren't they always. And if Edoras was really the prime target of the storm - why? To keep Rohan subdued and mislead for longer? Definitely not out of consideration for Saruman's fate. Is it a manifestation of a flare of anger against Gandalf, Aragorn, or the proclaimed members of the Fellowship in general? Then why now, if orcs and a Nazgul have already spotted them over the Anduin and their presence and activities are fairly visible throughout TTT and ROTK? And I would describe Sauron's attitude towards these people more as scorn than anger. If we take the approach of a directed storm, then we have to explain who directed it and at whom (or what).

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I recall some other mentions of controlling weather. Boromir mentions on Caradhras the belief that Sauron controls the weather on the borders of Mordor - something which may well be true to an extent considering his stunt during the Battle for Gondor (the extent marked by the early southern wind which was obviously against his plans). In the same part of the story, the Fellowship debates whether their weather-related misfortunes are due to natural or unnatural causes. Boromir seems to lean towards intentional malingering; Aragorn and Gimli imply that the causes are likely natural but may be influenced by forces other than Sauron; Gandalf's sage advice is that the cause doesn't make a difference in their immediate decision. The movie, if I recall correctly, takes this up a notch and has Saruman chanting incantations that seem to make the rocks fall and the wind blow, but there doesn't seem anything in the books to positively prove Saruman's involvement.

Gandalf's "wizard display", paticularly as a bearer of Narya and the one with power over fire, could reasonably include some form of play with light and shadow, even some lightning. These elements are seen in association with his "magic" quite frequently. But the real storm you mention does make me wonder - after all just a short time before Legolas sees the sunshine reflect off the roofs in Edoras. Was it a really fast-moving storm, hitting Edoras quite suddenly and passing by within half an hour?

You bring up a good point about being a ringbearer and weather. Has anyone considered that Galadriel, too, controls the weather? Compare Lothlórien to the sere land around it. It would seem Galadriel has created an enclosed biosphere.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

You bring up a good point about being a ringbearer and weather. Has anyone considered that Galadriel, too, controls the weather? Compare Lothlórien to the sere land around it. It would seem Galadriel has created an enclosed biosphere.

I suppose Elrond too has some control, given his stunt with the river - which I always found odd and out of character since Galadriel had the ring of water. She has a connection with water as well, through her mirror, but I always found the ring arrangement a little disorienting.

We don't see Elrond controlling the weather in the air, which would match Vilya's character better. But maybe Rivendell is just happily placed far away from the serious not-quite-natural or at least pathetic fallacy weather that we see further East and South.