LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 03 - Three Is Company

[Formendacil]

Rereading this old thread, not because I have anything that cropped up on my reread to say, though that is why I read it, but because I have something to say one the very old topic of Sam and Pippin and "sir."

Namely, two things:

First, it gets mentioned in the thread that Sam is younger than Frodo (contra what we see in the movies) and has probably always known him as "Mr. Frodo," which is a combination of therefore of deferential age and deferential status. What *didn't* get mentioned is that Pippin is even younger still: he's only 29, not yet even come of age. Granted, I don't know if we can say that makes him as fool as a teenager, but he's definitely more adolescent than the other hobbits we see up close.

I think this is relevant, not because it explains why Pippin gets "sir" and Sam doesn't--that is presumably adequately explained by Pippin being the only son and heir of the Took himself--but because it helps explain some of the cringiness of the interaction. And it *is* cringy, once you're listening for it. I don't personally think the cringiness lasts--maybe it goes as far as the House of Tom Bombadil? After that, though Sam certainly maintains a sense of what he would no doubt consider good hobbit decorum, Pippin (possibly being influenced by Merry as well) becomes rather more Frodo-esque.

True, we don't see the same Frodo-Sam-Pippin trio close-up after they make it Crickhollow, but I think it's also true that the initial response of the Hobbits as they venture out into the wide world in all its wonder is to have a sort of flattened egalitarianism. Next to the Bombadils and Striders and Glorfindels--to say nothing of the Elronds or Galadriels beyond, the distinctions between the Hobbits seem minor and they naturally band together a little more.

It's noted earlier in the thread that the "true" relationship of lords and thegns, masters and bondsmen is a theme of the book, but the direct relationship of this to Pippin wasn't quite sewn up, and I think it's important here: both Pippin and Merry end up declaring fealty to great lords, but it's noteworthy that Pippin gets the far more difficult master: Merry serving Théoden is almost as idyllic as Sam serving Frodo; Pippin serving Denethor is not.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

It's noted earlier in the thread that the "true" relationship of lords and thegns, masters and bondsmen is a theme of the book, but the direct relationship of this to Pippin wasn't quite sewn up, and I think it's important here: both Pippin and Merry end up declaring fealty to great lords, but it's noteworthy that Pippin gets the far more difficult master: Merry serving Théoden is almost as idyllic as Sam serving Frodo; Pippin serving Denethor is not.

If the War of the Ring does serve, as Gandalf intimates, to "train" the hobbits of the Fellowship, it makes sense that Pippin might need the more difficult "lesson".
Merry was eight years older, but seems to me as mature as Frodo himself. Certainly, he handles the preparations for the journey from the Shire pretty well, and performs solidly in the Old Forest, at least until the Willow incident.

I think Pippin being placed in Minas Tirith, in the very eye of the storm, basically alone, forced him to grow up very quickly.