Of the Rings of Power

[ArcusCalion]

The usage of Dol Amroth is always in the context of the future: 'In the lore of Dol Amroth.' This case of Mirkwood is used erroneously (before we even explain the name Mirkwood) as the current residence of the elvenking.

[Findegil]

RP-SL-29.5: Okay. I see you are right. BUt I think the article should not be used. It is not 'the Mirkwood' so it should not be 'the Greenwood'. Kapitalisation is enough to show that it is a name. If we want t ob be even more clear about that we should use the full name 'Greenwood the Great', which I think is the best solution.

RP-SL-40b: Sorry for coming up with this again, but I found that I used the complete passage later at the end of 'Tal-Elmar', where I place the discussion about the Middle-men. Therefore I would eliminat it here:

... RP-SL-37<The History of Galadriel and Celeborn But at some later time RP-SL-38{ [there is no indication of the date]} Galadriel and Celeborn together with Celebrían departed {from}and over Imladris{ and} went to the little-inhabited lands between the mouth of the Gwathló and Ethir Anduin. There they dwelt in Belfalas, at the place that was afterwards called Dol Amroth; there Amroth RP-SL-39{ their}, son of Amdír, at times visited them, and their company was swelled by Nandorin Elves from Lórinand.> RP-SL-41b <HoME 12, Dwarves and Men, Note 67 This according to the traditions of Dol Amroth had been established by seafaring Sindar from the west havens of Beleriand who fled in three small ships when the power of Morgoth overwhelmed the Eldar and the Atani; but it was later increased by adventurers of the Silvan Elves seeking for the Sea who came down the Anduin. RP-SL-43b <Vinyar Tengwar 42 There was already a primitive harbour there of fisherfolk, but these in fear of the Eldar fled into the mountains.> RP-SL-44b <The History of Galadriel and Celeborn; Amroth and Nimrodel, Note 18 [Footnote to the text: The place of the Elvish haven in Belfalas is marked with the name Edhellond ("Elf-haven{,}" RP-SL-45{ see the Appendix to The Silmarillion under edhel and lond}) on the maps.{decorated map of Middle-earth by Pauline Baynes; but I have found no other occurrence of this name. See Appendix D, p. 274. Cf. The Adventures of Tom Bombadil (1962), p. 8: "In the Langstrand and Dol Amroth there were many traditions of the ancient Elvish dwellings, and of the haven at the mouth of the Morthond from which 'westward ships' had sailed as far back as the fall of Eregion in the Second Age."}]> The Silvan Elves were RP-SL-45.5{Middle Elves according to the Númenórean classification, though unknown to the Atani until later days: for they were} like the Sindar Teleri, but were laggards in the hindmost companies who had never crossed the Misty Mountains and established small realms on either side of the Vales of Anduin. (Of these Lórien and the realm of Thranduil in Mirkwood were survivors in the Third Age.) But they were never wholly free of an unquiet and a yearning for the Sea which at times drove some of them to wander from their homes.
>
RP-SL-46<Of the Rings of Power But Sauron gathered ...

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

RP-SL-29.5: Agreed to Greenwood the Great.

RP-SL-40b: I see why you removed it, but I think that once this sentence is gone, the antecedent to the 'This' is gone as well. The way this new version flows is somewhat choppy. It sounds at first like Galadriel and Celeborn establish a settlement, and then it says it one was founded aftrwards. I think to remedy this all we need to do is add 'settlement' after the 'This' like so:

... and their company was swelled by Nandorin Elves from Lórinand.> RP-SL-41b <HoME 12, Dwarves and Men, Note 67 This settlement according to the traditions of Dol Amroth had originally been established by seafaring Sindar ....

For me this flows better and lessens the awkwardness of the transition.

[Findegil]

RP-SL-40b: Agreed.

[gandalf85]

I skimmed through the previous chapters before reading this one. The previous chapters all build up nicely to this one, as they're all related to building up defenses and preparing for the inevitable next move by Sauron. I have a comment about the placement of the Elessar stories but I will post them in that thread to avoid confusion.
Here are my comments:

1) RP-SL-26: I agree that the mention of the date and the "Tale of Years" should be removed from the main text, but maybe it could be placed in a footnote? Something like:

For many years the Westlands had peace, and time in which to heal their wounds; but the Númenóreans had tasted power in Middle-earth, and from that time forward RP-SL-25.5 [Footnote: the year 1800 of the Second Age] they began to make permanent settlements on the western coasts RP-SL-26{ [dated "c. 1800" in the Tale of Years]}, becoming too powerful for Sauron to attempt to move west out of Mordor for a long time.

2) There seems to be two points where Elrond establishes Imladris. The first is:

... and it was at that time RP-SL-18{[}in the year 1697, according to the Tale of Years{]} that he established a refuge and stronghold at Imladris (Rivendell).

And later:

At that time Elrond went RP-SL-32{westward [sic; probably meaning simply that he did not cross Misty Mountains]}[northward] and established the refuge of Imladris;

If we just remove that entire part "At that time Elrond went northward and established the refuge of Imladris;" I think it flows better.

3) I am confused about one section:

... Celeborn went at first to Lórien and fortified it against any further attempts of Sauron to cross the Anduin.> RP-SL-33<The History of Galadriel and Celeborn; Amroth and Nimrodel {The implication of the extract just given is that after Eregion’s fall Celeborn led this migration to Lórien, while Galadriel joined Gil-galad in Lindon; but elsewhere, in writing contemporary with this, it is said explicitly that they both}Both Galadriel and Celeborn at that time {‘}passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien{‘}.>

Removing all formatting, this says that "Celeborn went at first to Lórien and fortified it against any further attempts of Sauron to cross the Anduin. Both Galadriel and Celebron at that time passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien." After the first sentence, does Celeborn travel back to Galadriel, then they travel to Lorien together?

4) As it stands, the transition into "But Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining rings..." is a bit awkward. The sentence which precedes it is "But they were never wholly free of an unquiet and a yearning for the Sea..." It also feels abrupt to transition back to Sauron after several paragraphs discussing Galadriel, Celeborn and different groups of Elves. I propose this order:

RP-SL-21<Relations of the Longbeard Dwarves and Men{Very great changes came to pass as the Second Age proceeded. ... that had formed an alliance also with the Longbeards of Moria.} This marked also the end of the Alliance of the Longbeards with Men of the North. ... and lived mostly in caves or in the borders of the Forest.>
RP-SL-46<Of the Rings of Power But Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining Rings of Power;...and some Sauron recovered.
Men proved easier to ensnare...darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.
RP-SL-22<The History of Galadriel and Celeborn At this time the first RP-SL-23<The History of Galadriel and Celeborn, note 10 White >Council was held..

There is a discussion of evil men of the East, the dissolution of the alliance of the Dwarves and Men and the diminishing and scattering of the Men of the alliance. I think this flows nicely into the next two paragraphs, where Sauron gives Rings to the Dwarves and Men. Then in the next section it returns to the Elves and discusses what they were up to.

[ArcusCalion]

1) As Fin will tell you, the project is very much against putting things into a footnote where none exists in Tolkien's draft. We do not need this information; it is not crucial. Therefore the simplest solution is simply to remove it, since it is CT's comment anyway and not part of the actual narrative.

2) I did not notice this, but you are right in both pointing out the problem, and in suggesting a solution. I agree with removing the sentence as the marker RS-SL-32b.

3) You are right this is odd. Maybe we could combine them like so:

RP-SL-32b {At that time Elrond went westward [sic; probably meaning simply that he did not cross Misty Mountains] and established the refuge of Imladris;} RP-SL-32.5 moved below {Celeborn went at first to Lórien and fortified it against any further attempts of Sauron to cross the Anduin.}> RP-SL-33<The History of Galadriel and Celeborn; Amroth and Nimrodel {The implication of the extract just given is that after Eregion’s fall Celeborn led this migration to Lórien, while Galadriel joined Gil-galad in Lindon; but elsewhere, in writing contemporary with this, it is said explicitly that they both}Both Galadriel and Celeborn at that time {‘}passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien{‘} RP-SL-33.5 moved from above <{Celeborn went at first to Lórien} and fortified it against any further attempts of Sauron to cross the Anduin{.} >.>

This way we combine the information and keep everything clear.

4) I like this better as well, but I would change the marker to RP-SL-46b.

[gandalf85]

I agree with all of your comments, and I like the way you combined things in point 3.