Off-genre adaptations - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Huinesoron · 02-28-2018, 10:06 AM

I mean, arguably yes, but you could say that about anything. Why did they bother with that Black Panther movie, when they could just have invented their own magi-tech African nation to tell their story in?

The answer comes down to three things: name recognition, exploration of a fictional universe, and (as you say) making money. Does the Nazgul of Numenor concept hit these? I'd say yes:

-It's about Middle-earth, and features both Sauron and the Nazgul. It centres on the use of Rings of Power, and has a heavy association with elves (including named movie characters like Galadriel and Elrond). Throw in careful setting design to evoke the Middle-earth 'feel', and you have a pretty hefty chunk of brand recognition.

-The events surrounding this are canon. The War of the Elves and Sauron took place, with Sauron seizing the Rings and using them to corrupt Men. Three of those Men were Numenorean nobility. Tolkien said that the Ringbearers gained power and influence (and wealth) in their homelands; it's a fairly simple deduction that the three Numenorean Nazgul were probably political movers and shakers before they left to work directly under Sauron.

Minastir and Ciryatur are actual people, and it's a fact that, according to the records, Minastir sent Ciryatur to relieve Lindon, despite the fact that his aunt was still on the throne, and had previously not intervened. We know what sort of person Telperien was - that she clung to power, and that she refused to marry in order to keep it in her own hands. Minastir's 'rebellion' is presumption, but it's a very logical one.

Would things have to be added? Absolutely - but they do in every adaptation. Numenor and the Rings of Power are a fairly unique setting, and I think there's enough uniqueness to justify keeping the story there, rather than slapping new names on it.

-Would it make money? I don't know. Non-epic high fantasy isn't a concept that's been well explored, so far as I know. Marvel has proven that you can shift genres within a series (the MCU contains action, comedy, heist, political drama, a whole bunch of stuff), so I think it's quite plausible that 'fantasy setting political drama with horror twist' could sell a bunch.

I mean, obviously it's not being made, and never will be. But it would probably make for a better movie than The Hobbit 7.6: On A Path In Mirkwood.

hS

Pervinca Took · 03-01-2018, 10:39 AM

No adaptation can live up to the original in terms of detail. But I think a decent adaptation can live up to it in spirit and essence.

The films didn't, but they didn't even try.

The BBC radio version and the stage musical, however, were far better adaptations, and did the books every bit of justice allowed by their respective art forms.

Huinesoron · 03-01-2018, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

No adaptation can live up to the original in terms of detail. But I think a decent adaptation can live up to it in spirit and essence.

The films didn't, but they didn't even try.

The BBC radio version and the stage musical, however, were far better adaptations, and did the books every bit of justice allowed by their respective art forms.

I've always thought that FotR-M came pretty close to capturing the spirit of Middle-earth. The Shire feels idyllic, the Elves feel otherworldly, Moria evokes decaying grandeur... If you think about the usual complaints about the various films, FotR mostly gets issues with minor characters (Bombadil, Glorfindel), while TTT has possessed Theoden and corrupt Faramir, and RotK has evil Denethor and 'Sam gives up and goes home'. There's a very clear distinction in my mind between FotR and the other five.

I freely admit it did some of the characters a disservice (Frodo in particular has most of his agency taken away in favour of tripping over), but I still hold that it evoked the magic and grandeur of Middle-earth.

Which is sort of the point of this thread. Middle-earth is a beautiful and fascinating world; I feel that there's room for a lot of different genres there to explore it and bring out different aspects of what makes it so incredible.

hS

Pervinca Took · 03-01-2018, 05:00 PM

PJ's Shire didn't feel quite right to me. Not quintessentially English. The music was wrong. I found FOTR (film) entertaining, but rarely felt as if I was really visiting Middle-earth.

My main problem, though, is the embarrassingly atrocious portrayal of Frodo. NOT a minor character.

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-03-2019, 06:27 PM

I would totally pay to see the Bakshi animated Fritz the Cat of Queen Beruthiel

Morthoron · 03-03-2019, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I would totally pay to see the Bakshi animated Fritz the Cat of Queen Beruthiel

Bah-dump-tisch!

How about a Broadway musical revue about Treebeard in his wayward youth, featuring the songs of Fats Waller?

They could call it...Ent Misbehavin'.

Rhun charioteer · 03-04-2019, 01:51 AM

I think Jackson's films did an all around good job, where they perfect? No but I was satisfied with them. Maybe its just because I'm not a die hard when it comes to this sort of thing.

03-01-2018, 10:39 AM	#2
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	No adaptation can live up to the original in terms of detail. But I think a decent adaptation can live up to it in spirit and essence. The films didn't, but they didn't even try. The BBC radio version and the stage musical, however, were far better adaptations, and did the books every bit of justice allowed by their respective art forms. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

03-01-2018, 05:00 PM	#4
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	PJ's Shire didn't feel quite right to me. Not quintessentially English. The music was wrong. I found FOTR (film) entertaining, but rarely felt as if I was really visiting Middle-earth. My main problem, though, is the embarrassingly atrocious portrayal of Frodo. NOT a minor character. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

03-03-2019, 06:27 PM	#5
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	I would totally pay to see the Bakshi animated Fritz the Cat of Queen Beruthiel __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

02-28-2018, 10:06 AM	#1
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,987	I mean, arguably yes, but you could say that about anything. Why did they bother with that Black Panther movie, when they could just have invented their own magi-tech African nation to tell their story in? The answer comes down to three things: name recognition, exploration of a fictional universe, and (as you say) making money. Does the Nazgul of Numenor concept hit these? I'd say yes: -It's about Middle-earth, and features both Sauron and the Nazgul. It centres on the use of Rings of Power, and has a heavy association with elves (including named movie characters like Galadriel and Elrond). Throw in careful setting design to evoke the Middle-earth 'feel', and you have a pretty hefty chunk of brand recognition. -The events surrounding this are canon. The War of the Elves and Sauron took place, with Sauron seizing the Rings and using them to corrupt Men. Three of those Men were Numenorean nobility. Tolkien said that the Ringbearers gained power and influence (and wealth) in their homelands; it's a fairly simple deduction that the three Numenorean Nazgul were probably political movers and shakers before they left to work directly under Sauron. Minastir and Ciryatur are actual people, and it's a fact that, according to the records, Minastir sent Ciryatur to relieve Lindon, despite the fact that his aunt was still on the throne, and had previously not intervened. We know what sort of person Telperien was - that she clung to power, and that she refused to marry in order to keep it in her own hands. Minastir's 'rebellion' is presumption, but it's a very logical one. Would things have to be added? Absolutely - but they do in every adaptation. Numenor and the Rings of Power are a fairly unique setting, and I think there's enough uniqueness to justify keeping the story there, rather than slapping new names on it. -Would it make money? I don't know. Non-epic high fantasy isn't a concept that's been well explored, so far as I know. Marvel has proven that you can shift genres within a series (the MCU contains action, comedy, heist, political drama, a whole bunch of stuff), so I think it's quite plausible that 'fantasy setting political drama with horror twist' could sell a bunch. I mean, obviously it's not being made, and never will be. But it would probably make for a better movie than The Hobbit 7.6: On A Path In Mirkwood. hS

03-04-2019, 01:51 AM	#7
Rhun charioteer Wight Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 118	I think Jackson's films did an all around good job, where they perfect? No but I was satisfied with them. Maybe its just because I'm not a die hard when it comes to this sort of thing.