Of Men

[Findegil]

Sorry but reading your new editing, I found what kicks out Nuin for good: 'in regions which neither the Eldar nor the Avari have known'. Since this from the later source it dinies that any Avari had found Murmenalda. So if we want to keep the description, we must make Nuin some thing else. I would simply make him one of Tû's people.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

agreed

[Findegil]

After thinking for a long time about the addition from LT I made up me mind that we might even take more from that same source. The Outlines A to D of the LT give after the awaking of Men a description of the Battle of Palisor between Dark-elves and Fankil an agent of Melkor who is leading a host of Goblins and Dwarves. Men in this Battle fought on both sides. Of course we must ask if that is a valid information in the later story frame. And I think it is. My reason for this is the following: That there was fighting of Men against Men is stated in The Tale of Adanel. That the Renegades (the Men that relapsed from the worship of Melkor) had conflicts with some Dwarves that were in some kind of alliance with Melkor is stated in Of Dwarves and Men. That the Renegades had dealings with Dark-elves is in all versions of the Silmarillion reported as a fact known through the influence that the Dark-elvish speech had have on that of the Folk of Beor. That means all three ingredients of the Battle of Palisor are attested in later (even very late) sources. Even so they are attested independently and not all together, this makes it highly probable for me at least, that the conflict described in the Battle of Palisor never changed in Tolkiens vision of Middle-earth.

So this is my proposal for the text:

15 Of Men
§81 Thus the Valar sat now behind the mountains at peace, … who gathered news of the earth through all the waters.
OM-01 <LT, Gilfano’s Tale Now the tale tells of a certain {fay}[Tû], and names him Tû the wizard, for he was OM-01.5{more }skilled in OM-02{magics}[enchantments]{ than any that have dwelt ever yet beyond the land of Valinor}; and wandering about the world he found the Elves … all the OM-03{fairies}[Elves] of his realm Hisildi or the twilight people. … none know now the entry.
There was a pallid light of blue and silver flickering ever, and many strange spirits fared in and out beside the {[?}numbers{]} of the Elves. Now of OM-03.2{those Elves}[Tû’s servants] there was one Nuin, and he was very wise, and he loved much to wander far abroad, for {the}his eyes OM-03.3{of the Hisildi }were becoming exceeding keen, and {they}he might follow very faint paths in those dim days. … piercing the great cliff and winding ever down.
Now daring greatly he … upon the midnight airs.
Suddenly afar off down … no wind blows.
Now did Nuin descend deeper into the vale, … scarce breathing.
Then seized with a sudden fear … telling of all he there saw — "and methought," said he, "that all who slumbered there were childrenOM-03.4{, yet was their stature that of the greatest of the Elves}."
Then did Tû fall into fear of Manwë, nay even of Ilúvatar the Lord of All, and he said to Nuin >OM-03.5<LT, Outline A that the sleepers he had found were the new Children of Ilúvatar, and that they were waiting for light. He forbade any of the Elves to wake them or to visit those places, being frightened of the wrath of Ilúvatar; but despite this Nuin went there often and watched, sitting on a rock. Once he stumbled against a sleeper, who stirred but did not wake. OM-03.6{ At last, overcome by curiosity, he awakened two, named Ermon and Elmir. They were dumb and very much afraid, but he taught them much of the {Ilkorin}[Avarin] tongue, for which reason he is called Nuin Father of Speech. Then came the first dawn; and Ermon and Elmir alone of Men saw the first Sun rise in the West and come over to the OM-04{Eastward Haven}[east].}> {OM-05 <LT, Outline D [Footnote to the text: Men grew in stature, and gathered knowledge of the Dark-elves, but Tû faded before the Sun and hid in the bottomless caverns.]>}
§82 OM-06 Thus, at the first rising of the Sun above the earth the younger children of the world awoke in the land of Hildórien … life teemed upon the soil and in the waters. OM-06.1 <LT, Outline D The hosts of Men came forth as sleepy children, raising a dumb clamour at the Sun; they followed it westward when it returned, and were grievously afraid of the first NightOM-06.2{. Nuin and Ermon and Elmir taught them speech.
Men grew in stature, and gathered knowledge of the Dark Elves,'}, but Tû faded before the Sun and hid in the bottomless caverns. Men dwelt in the centre of the world and spread thence in all directionsOM-06.3{; and a very great age passed}.> But the first sun arose in the West, and the opening eyes of Men were turned thitherward, and their feet as they wandered over earth for the most part strayed that way.
§83 Of Men [Footnote to the text: Atani they were called in Valinor, but the Eldar called them {Hildi[}Hildor{]}, the followers; whence Hildórien, the place of the arising of the {Hildi}[Hildor], is named. And many other names they gave to them: Engwar the sickly, and Firyar the mortals; and named them the Usurpers, the Strangers, and the Inscrutable, the Self-cursed, the Heavy-handed, the Night-fearers, the Children of the Sun] little is told in these tales, … but they understood not the messages. OM-06.4{Yet it is told that ere long they met the Dark-elves … the Valar but as a rumor and a distant name.}
§84 Not long had Morgoth then come back into the Middle earth, and his power went not far abroad, … when every leaf is green.
OM-06.5 <LT, Outline D Here it {is}must be told{ at the beginning of the narrative} that {Melko}[Melkor]'s {Úvanimor}[Úmaiar] had escaped when the {Gods}[Valar] broke the Fortress of the North, and were wandering in the forests{;}and Fankil servant of {Melko}[Melkor] dwelt uncaptured in the world.>
OM-07 <GA 60 Indeed {we learn}the Elves have learned now in Eressëa from the Valar, through {our}their kin that dwell still in Aman, that after Dagor-nuin-Giliath Melkor was so long in assailing the Eldar with strength for he himself had departed from Angband, for the last time. Even as before at the awakening of the Quendi, … for neither the Valar nor Men have spoken to them clearly of these things.
§80 But that some darkness lay upon the hearts of Men … few servants, and those of less might and cunning.>
OM-07.1 <moved from above Yet it is told that ere long {they}Men met the Dark-elves in many places, and were befriended by them. And the Dark-elves taught them speech, and many other things; and Men became the companions and disciples in their childhood of these ancient folk, wanderers of the Elf-race who had never found the paths to Valinor, and knew of the Valar but as a rumor and a distant name.>
OM-07.2 <LT, Outline D But Fankil with the Dwarves and {Goblins}[Orcs] went among Men, and bred estrangement between them and the Elves; and many Men aided the Dwarves. The folk of ErmonOM-07.3<LT, Outline A and Elmir> alone stood by the {fairies}[Elves] in the OM-07.4{first }war of {Goblins}[Orcs] and Elves {(Goblins is here an emendation from Dwarves, and that from Men)}, which is called the War of {Palisor}[Endor]. Nuin died at the hands of the {Goblins}[Orcs] through the treachery of Men. Many kinderds of Men were driven to the eastern deserts and the southern forests, whence came dark OM-07.5{ and savage peoples.},<LT, Outline A wild and savage tribes{'}, worshipping {Fangli}[Fankil] and {Melko}[Melkor]. Thereafter{ (in A only)} {Palisor}[Endor] was possessed by {'}{Fangli}[Fankil] and his hosts of {Nauglath}[Naugrim] (or Dwarves){'}.> The hosts of Tareg the {Ilkorin}[Dark-elf] marched North-west hearing a rumour of the {Gnomes}[Exiles]; and many of the lost kindreds joined him.>
§85 OM-08{But}So the dawn is brief and day full often belies its promise; … Thence they are recalled at length to freedom, either as spirits, taking form according to their own thought, as the lesser folk of the divine race; or else, it is said, they are at times OM-09{re-born into their own children}[re-housed], and the ancient wisdom of their folk does not perish or grow less.
§86 More frail were Men, … nor was all foretold in the Music of the Ainur.
§87 In after days, when because of the triumph of Morgoth Elves and Men became estranged, … And in the glory and beauty of the Elves, and in their fate, full share had the fair offspring of Elf and Mortal, {Earendel}[Eärendil] and Elwing, and Elrond OM-10 [and Elros] their {child}children.

The changes introduce or adapted by me:
OM-01.5 & OM-02: the superlative ‘more … then’ I removed. Very similar things were said about Melian therefore it might be saver to remove this.

OM-03.2: This was already discussed. Nuin can not be a Dark-elf if the Elves never had known about the area where Men awoke.

OM-03.3: Again Nuin is no Elf therefore what is said here must be reduced to his abilities, not that of all Avari.

OM-03.4: This was as well already discussed: Men and Elves were of the same height.

OM-03.5: I introduce this marker to indicate were we change from full narrative to outline.

OM-03.6: This change was discussed above: The Tale of Adanel denies the possibility of Men being instructed in the very first beginning by anybody.

OM-06.1: The last bit of the Murmealda story.

OM-06.2: Ermon and Elmir together with Nuin as teachers of the Elves are to be removed.

OM-06.3: A very great Age does not fit any later chronology.

OM-06.4: Even so Andreth does say that she does not know if Men meet Elves before they had their affair with Morgoth, from the Tale of Adanel that is my clear impression. Therefore I shifted this passage to a later place in the chapter (see OM-07.1).

OM-06.5: The intro of Fankil and the Úmaiar from Outline D which seems needed and for which I couldn’t find a better place.

OM-07: We already discussed this lighter editing.

OM-07.1: Here I placed the meeting with the Dark-elves. It is now after Melkor dealings with Men.

OM-07.2: This is now the Battle of Palisor. My Reason to introduce it I already explained above. The intro of ‘but’ makes him acting in a kind of counter action to the friendship of Men and Elves, which form was anyway implicit hinted at.

OM-07.3: If we use Ermon than I see no good reason not to use Elmir as well.

OM-07.4: In the later time line Dagor-nuin-Giliath is already over. So the Battle of Palisor can not be the first war of Orcs and Elves.

OM-07.5: Only Outline A does provide the detail that the Men of East and South worshipped Fankil and Melkor, and that Fankil possessed Palisor after the Battle. It might be argued that this last detail was skipped deliberately, but that the host of Tareg left Palisor with many of the lost kindreds is said in D, so it seems quiet natural that Fankil and his Dwarves in the end ruled in Palisor.

OM-08: With all these text introduced the ‘But’ is no longer okay.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

OM-06.3: This whole sentence should be deleted, because the whole people of Men were in one place when Melkor appears to them in the Tale of Adanel, so they cannot spread across the earth.

OM-07.2: I would add an "evil" before the "Dwarves" at the first occurrence. Dwarves are not inherently evil in later versions, so that these dwarves are evil is a departure from the norm, and should be noted.

As a general note I noticed that the base text of the chapter uses "Morgoth" whereas the Grey Annals and Lost Tales insertions use "Melkor." We should standardize as "Morgoth" throughout.

[Findegil]

OM-06.3: Okay, but then I think we have to skip the next as well. And probably it makes sense to put them in later:

... life teemed upon the soil and in the waters. OM-06.1 <LT, Outline D The hosts of Men came forth as sleepy children, raising a dumb clamour at the Sun; they followed it westward when it returned, and were grievously afraid of the first NightOM-06.2{. Nuin and Ermon and Elmir taught them speech.
Men grew in stature, and gathered knowledge of the Dark Elves,'}, but Tû faded before the Sun and hid in the bottomless caverns. Men dwelt in the centre of the world and spread thence in all directions; and a very great age passed.> OM-06.3{But the first sun arose in the West, and the opening eyes of Men were turned thitherward, and their feet as they wandered over earth for the most part strayed that way.}
§83 Of Men …
…
...
§80 But that some darkness lay upon the hearts of Men … leaving behind at that time but few servants, and those of less might and cunning.>
OM-07.05 <LT, Outline D Men dwelt in the centre of the world and spread thence in all directionsOM-07.07{; and a very great age passed}.> OM-07.08 <moved from above But the first sun arose in the West, and the opening eyes of Men were turned thitherward, and their feet as they wandered over earth for the most part strayed that way.>
OM-07.1 <moved from above Yet it is told that ere long they met the Dark-elves in many places, and were befriended by them. …

OM-07.25: To add ‘evil’ seems too much of a liberty for me. I would rather skip the ‘the’ before Dwarves, so that not all Dwarves are specified here.

Melkor/Morgoth: In the insert of OM-06.5 I used Melkor deliberately since we are here recording past events from the time of Utumno. And also in the passage inserted under OM-07.5. Nobaody would worship ‘the Black Foe’ therefore Melkor is the batter name in this specific case. But for the inserts from GA I agree to change it to Morogth.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Arvegil145]

Isn't the Tale of Adanel just that - a tale, vaguely remembered among the descendants of the original Men?

So why put so much weight to it?


I'm saying this because I don't think we should delete the references to Nuin awakening Ermon and Elmir, nor them teaching the other Men language.


Also, a fun fact - if Tu (being a fay in the BoLT) is a Maia, that would fit nicely with this statement in the NoME:

Men awake VY 1075 (and are hidden from other contacts by Melkor)? But Eru independently of Manwë sends messages and messengers to them (and the Elves). That is about 10,800 Sun-years after Elves [awoke] and 15 VYs (or 2,160 SYs) before the attack of the Valar. The Valar do not discover Men (whose centre was far south of Utumno*), and think the removal of Melkor probably sufficient protection: they are not supposed to "meddle" with Men, but only guard them so that they can develop as they should. But they are anxious, especially after they discover that Melkor had already affected the Quendi; and are aware that by no means all of Melkor’s evil associates and forces had been destroyed or captured. They are therefore always sending out emissaries and explorers to Middle-earth during the Captivity of Melkor.

- The Nature of Middle-earth, 'The Awaking of the Quendi', Text A, p. 39 (dating from c. 1959)


Of course, in this text Tolkien had a completely different conception of the timeline of Arda, as well as the duration of the Valian years - but that is in and of itself irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make: which is that Eru sent actual messengers to the OG Men from the very beginning!


*There is also an interesting note to the text by Carl Hostetter which deals with the location of Men's original homeland far south of Utumno, which goes:

Far south and, presumably, far east of Utumno. At one point Tolkien baldly stated that: "The Great Central Land, Europe and Asia, was first inhabited. Men awoke in Mesopotamia" (IX:410).

The reference to the 'IX:410' refers to this passage in Sauron Defeated, 'The Drowning of Anadune', Note 2, p. 410:

"The Great Central Land, Europe and Asia, was first inhabited. Men awoke in Mesopotamia. Their fates as they spread were very various. But the Enkeladim withdrew ever west."

'Enkeladim' here meaning 'Elves'.

[Findegil]

Most of the texts we work with are just tales! For me The Tale of Adanel and the philosophy of Athrabeth would no longer work at all, if Men would have some dealings with other Ainur or incarnates. The Voice is asking them to learn from expirence not from others. And the interpretation of the gift as presented in the Athrabeth seems to me only possible when you can't compare it to the longvety of the Elves or imortility of the Ainur.

Therefore I think Nuin can't wacke Ermon and Elmir and has to leave the newly awoken Men to sameself for a time.

Respectfully
Findegil