Bio-warfare In Middle-earth

[William Cloud Hicklin]

There was also the pestilence which Morgoth sent into Hithlum, which killed Turin's sister Lalith among many others. Of course Morgoth was a Vala; but then, he too couldn't "create," only corrupt.

[Nerwen]

So, while the original question posed in this thread was about Sauron's biological warfare strategy, the 2016 uh, renaissance* concerns the nature of "plague" in Middle-earth? Well, I'd say there isn't a single answer- as others have mentioned, these are presented as writings by people who would tend to see disease in terms of magic; l think it's ultimately up to the reader whether or not to look through the lens of modern science for the "real" version of events.





*runs for cover.

[Ivriniel]

how did the Dark Lords stop the pestilence annihilating the Orcs? when I read the stuff about plague in materials, I always hazarded that the plagues were not so much contrived, but a natural consequence of the lack of hygiene in Orc warrens.

I imagine that numbers of both friends and foes dropped significantly, although, the Dark Lords probably knew Orcs multiplied more quickly than Numenoreans.

We never heard if plague affected the Elves. I don't think it did.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

how did the Dark Lords stop the pestilence annihilating the Orcs? when I read the stuff about plague in materials, I always hazarded that the plagues were not so much contrived, but a natural consequence of the lack of hygiene in Orc warrens.

I imagine that numbers of both friends and foes dropped significantly, although, the Dark Lords probably knew Orcs multiplied more quickly than Numenoreans.

We never heard if plague affected the Elves. I don't think it did.

If the Orcs were 'corrupted' Elves, they should have at least some measure of an Elf's innate disease immunity. Even if that resistance was diluted, perhaps it provided enough protection that Morgoth (and Sauron) weren't overly concerned about casualties in their own forces.

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If the Orcs were 'corrupted' Elves, they should have at least some measure of an Elf's innate disease immunity. Even if that resistance was diluted, perhaps it provided enough protection that Morgoth (and Sauron) weren't overly concerned about casualties in their own forces.

Interesting. If corrupted Elves (ie the neo theory that they weren't might have bearing on this item).

We didn't learn much about their lifespan etc and native resilience, except that they bore young in the same manner as Elves and Men. I've been wanting to look at the Black Silmarillion to see if there was anything interesting in it about stuff like that.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If the Orcs were 'corrupted' Elves, they should have at least some measure of an Elf's innate disease immunity. Even if that resistance was diluted, perhaps it provided enough protection that Morgoth (and Sauron) weren't overly concerned about casualties in their own forces.

Given the corruption of the Orcish hröa I would say that it's possible they lost the Elvish immunity to disease in the same way that they lost their longevity and the like, "the fëa dragging down the hröa in its descent into Morgothism." (Morgoth's Ring) Professor Tolkien mentions this in the context of the properties of Elvish fëa and hröa, and how corruption of the former corrupted the latter, so I would say this is a possibility.

I think it's altogether likely that Sauron, if he did instigate the plague, damaged his own people as well, but expected in the subsequent generations that they would replenish themselves more than sufficiently, which they did. I don't expect that Orcs and the like were immune any more than the Easterlings surely weren't.

[Inziladun]

As is my wont, I sometimes see great events of the 'real' world through the lens of Tolkien.

The current Great Plague of our time reminded me of this thread, and I thought I'd bump it to see if there were any fresh ideas.

Without the Germ Theory, I still wonder how the illness infections, and even more, the spread, were accomplished.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

As is my wont, I sometimes see great events of the 'real' world through the lens of Tolkien.

The current Great Plague of our time reminded me of this thread, and I thought I'd bump it to see if there were any fresh ideas.

Without the Germ Theory, I still wonder how the illness infections, and even more, the spread, were accomplished.

Orcs ate pangolins, thus creating the Orcoronavirus.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Without the Germ Theory, I still wonder how the illness infections, and even more, the spread, were accomplished.

Long before Pasteur, people had observed that contact with or proximity to infected people, or objects associated with them, led to contagion. Quarantine was used a thousand years before germ theory! (Farther back than that, WRT leprosy). See also the practice of catapulting the corpses of disease victims into a besieged city, and the infamous if distorted tale of Lord Amherst and his smallpox blankets. (Distorted because it didn't and couldn't work; the smallpox virus can't be transferred that way).