Middle-earth What-ifs

[Corsair_Caruso]

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

Concerning Gondor: I actually find it quite unbelievable that a Steward (or another house for that matter) would claim the kingship, it goes against the whole upbringing and cultural/national identity of Gondor and the stewards: Gondor is the land of Anarion, a Gondor that no longer is the land of Anarion is no longer Gondor. In order for that to happen the whole identity and culture of the place would have to change (can anyone imagine a monarchic USA, an anti-Semitic Israel, a Protestant Italy or a republican Japan? Same thing.) You're right in that there probably weren't "A lot" of great houses that were more noble than the House of Hurin and had connections to the House of Anarion, but there were at least a few of them and the house of the stewards was not on top, neither socially nor economically.
Maybe if a Steward achieved some otherworldly success that rivaled Elendil he would have a chance to start a new royal line: defeat Mordor, slay Sauron in single combat, significantly enlarge the realm, renewed contact with the elves plus a marriage, etc. - but that's not very likely is it?

I agree with you here, for the most part. Most alternate timelines, in my experience, require some change in order to occur. Some departure from the original series of events that led to history as we know it. In my above discussion of Boromir, the point of departure I envisioned was a difference in the effects of the Morgul wound he suffered defending Osgiliath against the Witch-King's armies. The wound's effects were less physical in nature, he didn't become withered and shrunken as he did in canon, but rather his mind began to become corrupted. His pride increased, and he began to become more practical, ruthless, and greedy, though he was still a mighty warrior, effective leader, and had a strong will, as in canon. This change occurred slowly, but eventually those close to him noticed the change. By that time, he had already begun to move slowly, but surely, toward his plans for claiming the crown. Thus would involve securing the support of Gondorian nobles (no easy task for the very reasons you've mentioned), accomplishing great feats to bolster his reputation and legacy, such as forging alliances with or conquering old enemies of Gondor, and in general manipulating public opinion so that people become more loyal to the current line of rulers, rather than to the memory of kings who died or lost their kingdoms.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Corsair_Caruso

1. Celebrimbor and Celebrian fall in love while Galadriel and Celeborn are in Eregion; the two marry and Galadriel never leaves, staying either a, or the, leader of the realm (depending on your reading of UT).

I'd figure that in the end Sauron would've paraded Galadriel's head around with glee. She was against him even before he revealed his true identity and apparently was not nice to him.

Galadriel seemed to have a plan similar to the duty of the Istari, to bring the various people together to protect themselves from evil. She formed allliance with Moria, and Lorinand and the alliance with the Dwarves really uplifted both realms in Eregion and in Moria. Had Galadriel stayed in Eregion might they have been better prepared to deal with Sauron by informing their allies of the possibility of his coming forth and mustering their strength to deal with it in concert?

When Sauron did come to sack Eregion he was met by a force from Gil-galad led by Elrond. Only later after the sacking of Eregion and nearly destroying Elrond's force the dwarves saved him from being destroyed along with a force from Lorinand. Clearly they did not all come together at once and how things might have been different I do not know. I do know that Eregion and Gil-galad's forces under Elrond could not deal with Sauron's forces. When Elrond's forces were aided by the dwarves of Moria and the Elves of Lorinand the Dwarves were chased to Moria and Elrond retreated to Rivendell.

At this time Eregion was missing a portion of it's people who left with Galadriel after the Gwaith-i-Mírdain took over. How much of a blow was this remnant departing from the land to the power of Eregion I do not know. So if Galadriel stays, these people do not leave with her, she's got allliances with Lorinand and Moria, and perhaps there is better communication and preparation for the onslaught. Obviously the Elves know about Sauron several years before he makes it to Eregion. Maybe they let Sauron come in to attack Eregion while the dwarves of Moria and the Elves of Lorinand keep a close eye on his movements and follow them in the rear as they go on to meet a buffered force in Eregion with forces from Gil-galad. Maybe Sauron retreats being met with a coordinated force like this. Maybe Galadriel and her allies plan something different. I know when Sauron invaded Eriador the people there were not necessarily coordinated and were only saved by the Dúnedain who came in later in the nick of time.

Then there is no Arwen or her brothers. What happens with Aragorn, or does Aragorn even need her or is in the position he was in the 3rd Age? Perhaps Númenor is still around and he's like the 50th king of the realm by then.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Imagine if Ted Sandyman had eloped with Rosie Cotton before Sam got back?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

Imagine if Ted Sandyman had eloped with Rosie Cotton before Sam got back?

The Cottons would have ensured he'd have been a dead Sandyman.