![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
![]() |
#1 | |||
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
At the end of the day, I don't see much of a contradiction here. Of course what we see at work here is Sauron's power, or rather the externalized part thereof embodied in the Ring, interacting with and working on the mind and will of the bearer, but I'd say addiction is the form this interaction takes.
__________________
Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,391
![]() ![]() |
In thinking about this issue, one must resist the temptation to categorize the Ring's influence within modern context. The Ring is not chemically, pharmacologically, physically or (exclusively) mentally addicting. While Middle Earth is, "historically", our Earth, it is different in a markedly important aspect. Preternatural power, call it magic if you will, though in some respects Tolkien seems to make a real effort to avoid "magic", perhaps as a writer would avoid a deus ex machina. The Ring has a power that deeply affects its wearers. Its attraction is "like" addiction, but it is something very different.
The Ring clearly tends to separate its bearers from humanity and fellowship, at the least as a side effect, though invisibility is clearly a barrier to interaction. Candidly, I never thought of this. Instead I ascribed Gollum's inability to get along with his family or anyone else to some inherent flaws within him exacerbated by the corruption caused by the Ring.
__________________
Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,038
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
In our world, there are certain persons who are more or less vulnerable to becoming addicted to various things. Case is point, both my grandfathers were alcoholics. I don't know the hows or whys. I myself, in my younger wild oats sowing, was known to drink "a bit" more than I should have, more often than was good for me, but I never reached that stage of addiction that required drinking every day, or even every other day. Now the Ring is presented as irresistible ultimately, by anyone who seeks to keep it. A power beyond the normal is wielded by it, more spiritual than anything else.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I agree with the points that Mithadan has raised and that Inzil mentioned in his last post; the Ring certainly is something deeply supernatural, it is a powerful object made by the Dark Lord and so forth, so obviously there is more to it than "our common" drug addiction (although in regards to one person's life, there is little difference in how destructive they can be. They just are).
However, out of the posts above I find myself agreeing the most with what Galadriel55 and Pitchwife had mentioned here. I, personally, do see the description of the Ring's destructive addictive power as something we can relate to simply as humans. I have always seen it as one of the things in which art, a story, a metaphor, can be million times more accurate than a scientific paper. Simply because art gets in touch with us and describes - no, shows - us things in a manner we can all relate to. Yes, I believe Gollum's case is so clear and very perfect copy of how an addict's life might look like. But I don't think that required any experience with meeting morphine addicts from Tolkien (whether he actually did have any or not, I am not here to judge that), or any weird supernatural precognitions of what science is about to discover (that, in my opinion, would be venturing into a very dangerous territory). Addictions, like Pitchwife said, have existed since the dawn of mankind (and probably before), and it is just something each of us can have some intuitive idea of, because we all have the potential for it (if potential is a good word to use, I'd rather use some negative word). There are other dimensions to the Ring, like it promising people something they crave for and twisting them according to their original ideals etc., but I wouldn't mix that with the addiction part. That has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. That is merely the way the Ring demands the "addict's" (bearer's) attention, but that doesn't change anything about the mechanism of the addiction, which is the same like of any other drug. Alcohol addiction makes you crave for alcohol, sex addiction makes you crave sex, opium addiction makes you crave opium, the Ring addiction makes you crave the Ring - wishing to have it in your pocket, on your finger; and then also to use it. What exactly do you use it for - whether to become the king of Gondor, to eat all the fishess in the world, to make Mordor a garden or whatever - is simply the "bonus" of the fact that the Ring adapts itself to the user, which a bottle of wine can't do. But the mechanism behind it doesn't change; if a bottle of wine was more clever, it could work the same way.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
![]() ![]() |
To be purist about the things of Middle Earth being Middle Earthish, and not having a modern context, contradicts Tolkien's own dictum that his story has many applications. The addictiveness of the Ring is one such.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,038
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Taking that route, Gollum would seem to be less an addict than a victim of Dissociative identity disorder, with his Slinker/Stinker personas. I maintain that lust for the One Ring, since it derives from the spiritual power of an incarnate divine being has no real-world counterpart.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
![]() What you maintain presupposes that there is no spiritual power of an incarnate divine being in the real world, which I find presposterous. However, the purpose of this thread is not theology, but addiction; so you have essentially argued yourself to a dead-end. So be it. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
![]() |
Quote:
As for the second instance, I don't really think the circumstances are similar. Sméagol actually murdered for the Ring, and he had not at that point borne it or undergone any of the suffering which that entailed. Frodo had. He woke deprived of the Ring he had borne and resisted for a long time, not to mention traumatised and disorientated by sickness and orc-capture. Sméagol at that point hadn't had it in the first place. And what overcame Frodo is described as a delusion, a distortion of reality: 'The hideous vision had seemed so real to him, half-bemused as he still was with wound and fear' As for blaming Sauron or not, I think the Ring was somehow hardwired to defend and preserve itself at any cost, including driving mad and immobilising anyone who tried to carry it to its destruction. Not that Sauron thought anyone would every try to destroy it. As for not caring which hobbit held it - Sauron knew nothing of hobbits when he forged his Ring. Their differences from each other, or from other races, wouldn't have entered into his calculations. The Ring itself may have sensed a difference, because it 'knew' it had an increasing hold on Frodo. It also seemed to 'think' carefully before taking a new bearer - 'Maybe ... a last trick of the Ring before it took a new bearer' (referring to the Ring falling off Bilbo's finger when he put it on to escape from Gollum and the orc-tunnel.
__________________
"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I've always felt like there is depicted as being something rather spontaneous about the effect that the Ring has on its possessors. What I mean is, I always felt as if it engendered possessiveness and mistrust in its possessors because that was simply in the nature of such an object, even if its owner, such as Gollum or Bilbo, was not aware of it. The Ring is depicted as evil, I would argue, because its purpose is intrinsically malevolent: to dominate the minds and wills of other rational beings. And because that is depicted as such a great evil in Professor Tolkien's work, it causes other evils as well; it brings out various evils in others because it is very fundamentally evil in a manner from which other evils derive. I'm not sure if what I'm saying is a bit redundant but that is how I tend to perceive the Ring's evil: that its own innate evil also brings out other forms of evil in those who possess it: not through design or the workings of Sauron's spirit (isn't it essentially a mindless object?), but simply through its ("unnatural") nature.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |