Scholarly Edition of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

(...) Perhaps Tolkien intended, as you said, to give 'Kortirion' an unknown author, which would in this case have been an unknown hobbit, using information on that city from various sources, like the unknown hobbit writing 'The Hoard' based on 'lore of Rivendell, Elvish and Númenorean'. But even in such a case, how could the subject matter of the poem fit in with the history of Middle-earth that was now 'fixed' in the published LotR, let alone in Tolkien's then unpublished writings of the First and Second Ages? I think that he was faced with the challenge of either completely revising the poem, or of making substantial revisions to what he had already written on Middle-earth, published and unpublished. (He'd already revised The Hobbit, to fit in with LotR regarding Bilbo, Gollum and the Ring.) It's fair to conclude, I think, that it might have been seen by him as too much of an effort, therefore it would be far easier to leave out that problematic poem.

I hope this makes some sense to you.

It makes sense to me. I guess what fascinates me is the seeming "almost" here, that Kortirion almost (even though I really don't know how close it came) makes it into the author-published corpus. Kortirion as a place is from older versions of the mythology, and if it had been published in this selection, it would have "survived" in some form or sense.

I think (memory) this was the general, very simplified evolution:

A) Kortirion actually becomes Warwick itself, as Tol Eressea becomes England.

B) Kortirion is a place in Tol Eressea, built by Elves, but is later not Warwick itself.

C) In this poem, latest version, Kortirion is built by the Edain, and there are fading Elves there.


You make a good point though, as with other poems in the collection, the accuracy of some things can be considered doubtful due to arguable whimsy (a troll baking bread for Perry-the-winkle) or to an incomplete knowledge of something historical, or even to an artistic take on something historical.

In other words, maybe we aren't supposed to place Kortirion in any specific place or time in Middle-earth. The Edain built it, and that's that... and Tolkien gets to have this poetry published, still connected to his larger work, as it once was but in a different way.

And still as a tribute to Warwick! But then, for whatever reason that it might upset the boat, it doesn't get in of course.

Or something! Thanks for the considered replies!

[Faramir Jones]

We've had a nice discussion, Galin. It's made me think of going to see Warwick in the future...

I agree with your 'general, very simplified evolution' of Kortirion.

Despite, as you say, the lack of accuracy of some things in some of the poems, due to 'arguable whimsy', an 'incomplete knowledge of something historical', or an 'artistic take' on the same, there are still recognisable elements from actual events in these poems, such as 'The Hoard' being partly made out of elements of the tale of Túrin and Mîm the Dwarf.

At the risk of repeating myself, Tolkien may have realised that, if he included this particular poem in the Adventures, it would become 'canon', and necessitate a lot of work to fit it in to the 'accepted' narrative, as he had already done in revising 'Riddles in the Dark' in The Hobbit.

But as you rightly said, all this is speculation, in the absence of further information.