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Old 12-22-2014, 04:21 PM   #1
Formendacil
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Originally Posted by Orphalesion View Post
Well the Silmarills weren't that important yet in a metaphysical sense, they were just the most beautiful of the gems created by the Noldoli. But even the later version Melkor is motivated, fundamentally motivated by greed, cosic-scale greed for the light untainted and the flame unperishable, but still greed.
I suppose one could call it that--though you've already conceded implicitly that there is an order of magnitude in difference between "cosmic-scale greed for the light untainted and flame imperishable" and the rather petty greed-for-gems we see here.

More to the point of what I was thinking, though, Melko's greed in the Lost Tales seems almost spontaneous: he sees gems and simply must have them, whereas although the later Melkor also lusts for the creations of the Noldor (including the Silmarils which do, indeed, have heightened importance), this is a long-standing desire on his part and it is not just a desire to possess something beautiful, but bound up far more clearly with his desire to dominate the other Valar and the created universe. Here that desire to dominate, though perhaps logically implicit, has not yet been drawn out by Tolkien.

And later, when it DOES become a key element of Melkor's plot and character, I would argue that it moves his motivations beyond the realm of even cosmic greed towards pride. Of course, as they say, pride is the root of all sins (including greed) and as the originator of all evil Melkor appropriately partakes of them all, but his greed is later more clearly subordinated to his pride, whereas in the early text it seems to arise separately.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:26 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Formendacil View Post
I suppose one could call it that--though you've already conceded implicitly that there is an order of magnitude in difference between "cosmic-scale greed for the light untainted and flame imperishable" and the rather petty greed-for-gems we see here.

More to the point of what I was thinking, though, Melko's greed in the Lost Tales seems almost spontaneous: he sees gems and simply must have them, whereas although the later Melkor also lusts for the creations of the Noldor (including the Silmarils which do, indeed, have heightened importance), this is a long-standing desire on his part and it is not just a desire to possess something beautiful, but bound up far more clearly with his desire to dominate the other Valar and the created universe. Here that desire to dominate, though perhaps logically implicit, has not yet been drawn out by Tolkien.

And later, when it DOES become a key element of Melkor's plot and character, I would argue that it moves his motivations beyond the realm of even cosmic greed towards pride. Of course, as they say, pride is the root of all sins (including greed) and as the originator of all evil Melkor appropriately partakes of them all, but his greed is later more clearly subordinated to his pride, whereas in the early text it seems to arise separately.
Indeed you are right, I sometimes forget the Catholic foundation of the later mythology and that Melkor's original sin was nihilistic pride, the folly to think himself as an equal or even superior to Eru.
Melko is really a much more petty creature than Morgoth. Here he just wants to grab the gems, which previously he had pretended to care little about later the other gems are just a cherry on top of his real target, the Silmarils containing the Light Untainted, which he hates and yet hungers for.
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:41 PM   #3
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Eye Chapter VII: The Flight of the Noldoli

It's a post six months in the making! Well, it's a post six months in the delaying--and for a rather short chapter, compared with some of the others in The Book of Lost Tales, but I haven't abandoned this thread.

In the meantime, there's definitely been time enough for those fallen behind in their reading to catch up.

"The Flight of the Noldoli" is really the conclusion to the previous couple chapters--chapters artificially divided as much by Christopher Tolkien as by the text--and it bears a strong resemblance to its successor texts in The Silmarillion. One of the interesting things about this text, as opposed to some of the others, is that we get to see a complete example of Tolkien brainstorming an idea: "the all-important battle of Cópas Alqaluntë where the Gnomes slew the Solosimpi must be inserted," with both the previous, shorter text still present and the later rider added. So often with Tolkien, we either cannot see the original text (erased pencil written over by the next version is common indeed in the Lost Tales) or we see notes that lead nowhere--and, indeed, this note is among a couple others that do not get a clear path to completion.

Even in this early text, when Fëanor is no kin to Finwë and swears no oath, the Noldoli end their unpleasant journey blaming him--he is the instigator, and by casting Nólemë as friendlier to the Valar and opposed to leaving, Tolkien creates a division between the two that doesn't turn to complete opposition, because Nólemë will not leave his people, continuing with them (as king) into exile. Nólemë's role in the story here, beyond the point of Finwë's death in The Silmarillion is essentially that of Fingolfin--a correspondence highlighted by the fact that Turgon is his son in this older version.

Tolkien is always good at leaving crumbs of stories never told--RPG germs, you could almost call them. There are at least two in this tale:

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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
Songs name that dwelling the Tents of Murmuring, for there arose much lamentation and regret, and many blamed Fëanor bitterly, as indeed was just, yet few deserted the host for they suspected that there was no welcome ever again for them back to Valinor - and this some few who sought to return indeed found, though this entereth not into this tale.
--emphasis mine

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Yet even so such things may not slay the Gnome-kin, and of those there lost still 'tis said some wander sadly there among the icehills, unknowing of all things that have befallen their folk, and some essayed to get them back to Valinor, and Mandos has them, and some following after found in long days their unhappy kin again.
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Old 06-19-2015, 11:16 AM   #4
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This marks the point where the villains are not the obvious characters. Previously the main villain is Melko with some lieutenants. Beside these there have appeared Ossë, Makar, and Meássë representing the dark side of the Valar, and also Ungweliant. But now most of an entire kindred of the Eldar, the Gnomes, has turned against Manwë and the other Valar, as well as turning against Melko.

In his later versions of his legendarium Tolkien makes the situation more complex with the slaying of Finwë and the appointment of the obvious heir Fëanor as new high king. But in the Book of Lost Tales nothing indicates any relationship between either Bruithwir or his son Fëanor with the Gnomish king Nólemë.

Fëanor announces his intention to set out into “the wide and magic world” to seek the gems that Melko has stolen and seemingly most who hear Fëanor are willing to follow Fëanor. King Nólemë follows the counsel of his advisers and is so also willing to follow Fëanor, even when Nólemë does not agree with Fëanor’s counsel.

It is not told whether Nólemë takes part with Fëanor in Fëanor’s stealing of the vessels or whether Nólemë was one of the later arrivals at the battle who slew the Solosimpi or cast them into the sea. “So first perished the Eldar neath the weapons of their kin, and that was a deed of horror.”

The Noldoli have now lost any chance of reconciliation with Manwë. A “servant of Véfantur” spies the Noldoli from the North and pleads with them to return, but the Noldoli only answer him scornfully. The servant then warns them in prophecy of ill adventures that will afterwards befall them, ending with the warning: “Great is the fall of Gondolin.”

In later accounts it is Mandos himself who proclaims the prophecy but no mention is made of Gondolin. Tolkien may have felt that a prophecy so specific beggared credibility, as well as raising the question of why the Noldoli would later give so ill-omened a name to their future city.

The prophecy is recalled by Turgon in “The Fall of Gondolin” in The Book of Lost Tales II in an interpolated sentence, possibly added after Tolkien wrote “The Flight of the Noldoli”. The prophecy is there attributed to Amnon the Prophet of Old. But here in “The Flight of the Noldoli” Tolkien wrote, “these word were treasured long among then as the Prophecies of Amnos, for thus was the place where they were spoken called at that time.”
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:03 PM   #5
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Nólemë's role in the story here, beyond the point of Finwë's death in The Silmarillion is essentially that of Fingolfin--a correspondence highlighted by the fact that Turgon is his son in this older version.
One could say that Finwe Noleme is Fingolfin - who at a later stage of the language was Finwe Nolofinwe, 'Sindarized' as Fingolfin. Or rather, Noleme was split into two characters, father and son, the 'father' half displacing Bruithwir. This identification can even be seen in his tomb: Finwe Noleme died in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears but his heart was recovered and brought to Gondolin, as was in the later legend the case with Fingolfin's body after his duel with Morgoth.
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