T-I-G CVIII: Wolves of the Galadhrim (Game Thread)

[satansaloser2005]

Known roles:
Shasta (wolf)
Copper (ordo)
Farael (ordo)
Sally (seer, duh)

Unknown roles:
Lottie
Rikae
Kitanna

In case anyone cares, the dreams are listed above in order.

[satansaloser2005]

Having put some pressure on the village to wait on my information, I'll note that Rikae seemed more perturbed by the wait than I believe an innocent her would have been. She really seemed to turn sour after I said my dreams were all alive, which is another point of interest to consider after I am inevitably gone toMorrow. I could well be wrong and she's just annoyed, but this smells of a furry Rikae realizing the tightness of her present spot. If there's a third wolf, I could think of no better candidate.



Note that we could (read, should) have at least a 1/3 chance of nabbing the last wolf (if there is one) toMorrow. The fact that Nimrodel didn't reveal and make it 50/50 makes me think they may not be aligned with the village, or that they are and their role is best kept hidden, which hopefully means the wolves will have quite the interesting Night if they get another one at all. I could speculate further, but I'll be dead come the morn and it likely won't be relevant anyway.

[satansaloser2005]

I may be back in the morning just before, but it's pretty unlikely. For now, sleep!

*nuzzles her wolfy psychic wolf boy*

[Nerwen]

DL in half an hour.

[Nerwen]

The Tally
Sally --> Shasta (1)
Lottie --> Shasta (2)
Kitanna --> Shasta (3)
Farael --> Shasta (4)
Coppermirror --> Shasta (5)
Rikae --> Noam Chomsky (1)

Left to vote: Shasta.

Hmmn.

[Nerwen]

DL. Noam Chomsky has been lynched. He was a werewolf.

[Nerwen]

On discovering the corpse of wolf-Aganzir, the remaining Elves rejoiced, none more than Sally.

"Agan should have learned not to impersonate me," she said. "Why would she think she could get away with it?"

The Elves gasped collectively. "You mean you're..?"

"I am," Sally nodded, "and I'm incredibly impatient. Shasta, would you like to be barbecued or slow roasted?"

"Now just a moment, Lady Galadriel," said Shasta, turning pale, "perhaps you *thought* your Mirror showed me turning into one of these terrible creatures, but appearances can be deceiving. The fact is, I'm Nimrodel. I just happen to... er... to wear furry grey pajamas- that's probably what confused you."

But no-one believed him. However none of them felt in the mood for a werewolf-barbecue. Instead, Sally- or, rather, Galadriel, produced a coil of silken grey hithlain rope. "As we Elves always say, never travel far without a rope! It may be a help in many needs."

The Elves made the rope fast to a branch near the flet on which they had gathered, while Coppermirror struck up a ballad in honour of the occasion. Shasta fought with all the fury of the wolf he was accused of being, but he was powerless against their greater numbers. For all his struggles, his head was soon forced into a noose, and he was marched to the edge and given a sharp push into space.

Neck broken, Shasta's body swayed like a pendulum, back and forth. The only sound was the faint creaking of the branch from which he hung.

Just as the Elves were beginning to suspect they had been deceived yet again, grey fur began to grow from Shasta's skin. Other changes followed. Within moments, instead of a dead Elf, the corpse of a hanged werewolf swung before them.

~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Coppermirror
Kitanna

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).
McCaber, choked on lembas Day Two. (Ordo).
Aganzir, shot with bow-and-arrow Night Three. (Werewolf).
Shasta, hanged with Elven rope Day Three. (Werewolf).


It is now Night Four.

[Coppermirror]

Good morning! (Or afternoon or night, as the case may be.) I'm probably going to be home all day toDay, so I'll have a fair amount of time to think about the game, on and off. So far I'm trying to look at the narrations for clues about roles, and then I'll want to look through the past Days' posting for hints about the possible identity of a third wolf.

[Coppermirror]

I will have a look at that. It may take a while, though, and I think it'd be a good idea for anybody else who has the time to also look through for clues on their own, since we might pick up on different things.

[Coppermirror]

That's three votes for Kitanna, which means that's it for her now. I'm not done with my analysis of the situation yet, but I'll keep on with it even though it's pointless as far as toDay is concerned and my vote doesn't count, in case the decision toDay was wrong.

Kitanna, if the decision toDay is wrong, what do you think ought to be done toMorrow? Do you suspect anybody in particular?

[Coppermirror]

It is getting pretty late, so I suppose I might as well vote now. May as well make it 5/5 for better or worse.

++Kitanna

[Coppermirror]

Yes, but since the voting's all over with I wasn't in any hurry to finish it up quickly. But I haven't actually found anything useful yet, so if you were hoping to go ahead and have the deadline early I don't mind.

[Nerwen]

Well, I'm going up the street now, so I'll give the result when I
get back. (Probably about half an hour.) Feel free to post in the meantime.

[Coppermirror]

There's no more point in considering Kitanna since if she's a wolf she's about to by lynched anyway, so I'll just look at Rikae, Farael and Lottie.

Day 3

Rikae
- Sceptical of Sally, and (not unreasonably) wanted voting to not go ahead without more details. Considered a lot of fake reveal scenarios.
- Sally finds her attitude about the revealed innocents perturbing, thinking that Rikae could be unhappy about narrowing odds. But if Rikae was a cursed, it actually wouldn't count.

Farael
- Also sceptical of Sally.
- Was quick to vote for Shasta after his "reveal", but if a wolf he would know that Shasta was doomed. So the vote placement, although the one which tipped it into 4 votes and sealed Shasta's fate, is not indicative of guilt or innocence.

Lottie
- Believed Sally and voted pretty quickly, but she had to vote very soon and was busy, so it was sensible. Didn't say much that Day.

Really, Rikae and Farael behaved in similar ways, albeit that Rikae was more aggressively sceptical and Farael was more low-key and voted faster (whereas the votes after his didn't count). I'm not sure what they would usually do as wolves. If I had to pick the more traditionally wolfish behaviour of the two I'd say Farael's, but there's a possibility a Rikae wolf would go for a bold strategy.

Day 4

Rikae and Farael's big argument mostly doesn't seem enlightening. Rikae does something odd in that she suggests that people vote for her, which is something I generally think an innocent should never do and which a wolf may use as a gambit. But then Farael agrees with that and says voting for her sounds like a good idea just because nobody should ever pull such a stunt. Which is also pretty bad...but may have been taking into account that it's not a wise thing for an innocent to do.

Rikae seems to be spending a lot of energy thinking things through, and also finds something which could legitimately be a slip from Lottie. It looks like a pretty genuine effort and thought process, but maybe Rikae is just a clever wolf. And if she's a wolf then she probably wouldn't know the true details of Nimrodel's role so would need to consider them. Farael also has some doubts. They look reasonable too.

And I'm probably about out of time now, so I'll leave it at this. No conclusions reached yet, unfortunately.

[Rikae]

Had to check the game as soon as I woke up.

I just have to say this, because it's bugging me:

No, ordos should definitely not always put their own survival first! An ordo wins when the village wins, so although we generally should try to stay alive, we should prioritize the survival and effectiveness of gifteds over our own survival. Of course a wolf can bluff at doing the same thing, but that doesn't mean it's never legitimate.
Jeez, I thought that was werewolf 101.

Anyway, judging from Kitanna's reaction, we were wrong. I had a bad feeling about it when I cast my vote.

[Rikae]

And also, I don't like it how Farael and Copper are both like "innocents should generally never do this" instead of actually looking at the situation as we knew it at the time. Lazy.

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Rikae

No, ordos should definitely not always put their own survival first! An ordo wins when the village wins, so although we generally should try to stay alive, we should prioritize the survival and effectiveness of gifteds over our own survival. Of course a wolf can bluff at doing the same thing, but that doesn't mean it's never legitimate.

It can be a good idea - never is too firm a term - it's just not something that should be jumped to hastily, especially at the point in the game when every ordo counts. Though now I check again it's not as if you were saying "vote for me now!" but "vote for me if Nimrodel doesn't reveal toDay!" which is slightly different. I still don't feel comfortable with that in toDay's context, though.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway, judging from Kitanna's reaction, we were wrong. I had a bad feeling about it when I cast my vote.

I'm still hoping it might have been right. What about her reaction made you think the vote direction was wrong?

Edit: crossed with Rikae

[Nerwen]

That took longer than expected, so I may as well wait for the normal DL.

[Nerwen]

The next morning the Elves were more bewildered than ever.

"This is utter insanity!" wailed Kitanna, as they tried to make sense of Galadriel's cryptic last words.

The Lady, it seemed, had thought one of their number might have been seduced into the service of evil- but had she been right?

"I wish I knew what Nimrodel's goals are," Farael muttered, "I'm still not convinced she's wholly on our side."

"We know that Lottie is Nimrodel," said Rikae with assurance, "so hearing from her exactly what she does can only help."

"Huh?" said Farael.

"Why yes, yes I am," announced Lottie with a bow. "Nimrodel, at your service! I killed Aganzir because I knew she was lying- and because she slew my beloved Amroth. Now who wants to help me kill Kitanna?"

"Wait," Rikae's eyes narrowed. "Aganzir... Sally... Kit... Amroth's murderers! Are you on our side- or your own? And then... didn't I catch you whispering to Aganzir? You're not a werewolf, are you?"

Everyone took a step back from Lottie.

"I killed Aganzir, remember? Now come on, everyone, let's lynch Kit!"

"Oh, very well, then," said the Elves. There was, they all agreed, something terribly evil about her, even if they were not sure what. They surrounded the maiden, weapons drawn.

Kitanna faced them proudly, her eyes flashing. "You're all wrong, but it's too late to stop it." She unclasped the leaf-shaped brooch from her cloak, and in a sudden swift movement used the pin to tear open the artery in her wrist.

Not until the blood had ceased to flow from Kitanna's body did they give up waiting for her to change. By then, even the most reluctant had to admit that they had, once again, caused the death of an innocent Elf.

~~~~~~

The Living
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Coppermirror


The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).
McCaber, choked on lembas Day Two. (Ordo).
Aganzir, shot with bow-and-arrow Night Three. (Werewolf).
Shasta, hanged with Elven rope Day Three. (Werewolf).
Sally, barbecued Night Four. (Seer).
Kitanna, wrists slashed with leaf-brooch Day Four. (Ordo).


It is now Night Five.

[Nerwen]

Rikae woke with a start. At first she was not sure if the fright that had set her heart racing was part of her evil dreams, the sound like faint footfalls just the blood throbbing in her ears. As the mists of sleep cleared, she realised there was indeed someone moving about her talan. Yet, the platform lay clear in the starlight.

She caught a glimpse of movement, a shimmering shadow that did not quite match the background of leaves and tree trunk.

Then she knew: the intruder was wearing one of the hue-shifting cloaks of Lorien.

"Who's there?" she asked uneasily.

With a chuckle, the figure threw back its hood, revealing a hairy lupine snout with glittering fangs.

"Now wouldn't you like to know?" said the werewolf.

"Aiiiee!" Rikae screamed, her cry cut short as the werewolf flung its cloak over her head, holding it tight over her lips and nostrils. The Elf struggled, but she could not match the iron strength of the creature of darkness. Soon she had no more air.

~~~~~~

The Living
Lottie
Farael
Coppermirror


The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).
McCaber, choked on lembas Day Two. (Ordo).
Aganzir, shot with bow-and-arrow Night Three. (Werewolf).
Shasta, hanged with Elven rope Day Three. (Werewolf).
Sally, barbecued Night Four. (Seer).
Kitanna, wrists slashed with leaf-brooch Day Four. (Ordo).
Rikae, smothered with Elven cloak Night Five. (Ordo).


It is now Day Five.

[Coppermirror]

So there's either a cursed-Farael or a cursed-LottieNimrodel. And the wolf must have had a reason for choosing to kill Rikae, but what that reason is I'm not yet sure. If the wolf is Lottie there's a very simple reason why Rikae would be dead, because she was the most openly sceptical of Lottie yesterDay. But that doesn't mean a Farael-wolf couldn't have had some reason to get rid of Rikae too.

Since it's the last Day and Farael's one of the players still around, there's something that's been bothering me which I hope he can answer. I'm sorry to ask about something with a slightly out-of-game basis.

Originally Posted by Farael

I'm really sorry folks. I foolishly assumed there'd be some comment on the Admin thread about the game starting. Since I am subscribed to the thread, I patiently waited for the e-mail to let me know... and missed Day1.

But, for several Days, you failed to go into invisible mode, which means that when you were around, your name was visible when you were present at the Middle Earth Mirth forum. And early on Day 1, around the same time I was reminding Tar-Jêx that he need to go into invisible mode, I saw that your username was listed as present for a while, and then you left and I didn't see your name there at any further point on Day 1. If you were there, why didn't you notice that the game had started? I think it was your username that I saw and not that of somebody else with a similar name.

Also, a question for Lottie...

Originally Posted by Loslote

I was a logical hunter of sorts - the of sorts is because I don't need to die before I can kill, which I at least haven't seen before - but I only got one kill, which I used to take out Agan, both because I was completely sure her Seer reveal was false and because she was responsible for the death of my Beloved Amroth. Of course, my role has changed before (from a typical suicidal Lover to a hunter), so I'm not positive it won't change again, but for now I am, in terms of extra powers and what not, effectively an ordo right now.

Is there anything else about your role that you haven't mentioned yet? And from the above, it looks as if your role changed from plain Lover to one-shot Hunter upon Amroth's death - am I reading that right?

I'm going to sleep now, so I won't be back for a while.

[Coppermirror]

Back and reading.

[Coppermirror]

Well, Farael's vote means that my only option is to vote for him and hope that Lottie's the innocent, since if she isn't she's already won anyway. Might as well place my vote now.

++Farael

[Coppermirror]

(a)

♪
Oh terror, doom, for Nimrodel hath a wolven snout and razor jaws!
Once beloved of our ruler, that fair elf-maid is no more.
We are betrayed by her; and thus our blood will soak the mallorn.
Farael first, and then I too will fail to reach the dawn.

Galadriel's dreams were true and certain;
Yet still we lost to foolish diversions,
And thus will pay a heavy price for sweet Lothlorien.
♪

(b)

♪
Let the Night hold no fears in Lothlorien;
May no wolves creep out from their loathsome dens.
Every leaf in this golden wood sings joy,
And no longer shall we doubt and seek out ploys.

Pitiful Farael, cursed and transformed,
His elven-form lost, can ne'er be reformed.
Though what has been done cannot be undone,
We may sing of the fallen here under the sun.
♪

[Coppermirror]

Ah well. I had a bad feeling it might be that one. I'd better grab my harp! Sorry for being late toDay and leaving Farael to make the decision on his own.

Excellent rant, Lottie!

[Coppermirror]

Excellent narrations throughout the game, Nerwen!

Cursed Lover seems like a pretty fun role. I wonder if any other games have had one before?

[Coppermirror]

Day 1.

Kitanna:
- banters
- speculates wildly, and among those, there's one known hit: Tar-Jêx as one of the Lovers. Given that Tar-Jêx got killed and revealed as Amroth on Day 1, they might have thought that was Seerish, but if they did, it didn't stop them thinking Boro was a better kill option for Night 2.
- says "I'm magic after all." in response to Agan's "Blimey! I didn't think we'd get caught this quickly." about the Lovers guess, and then speculates about the Lovers' roles. The "I'm magic" stuff might have been too bold-sounding to be followed up.
- votes randomly for Tar-Jêx, who anyone would have expected to be safe from being voted off on Day 1, so if they thought Seer!Kitanna had dreamed of him as a Lover/Ranger, Seer!Kitanna would have expected her vote to be 100% ineffectual and safe. (Although it turns out it wasn't safe.)

Rikae:
n/a

Farael:
n/a

Loslote:
- banter, talks of dark portents
- says could buy Kitanna's speculation about Lover-cobblers.
- votes Boro, leaves

Day 2

Kitanna:
- Post #75 has multiple suggestions. Can't see anything of note there.
- Shows up to vote. Really, there is so little there.

Rikae:
- Points out that Tar may not have known details of Nimrodel's role.
- Suggests maybe Nimrodel's an illogical hunter.

Farael
- suggests that Nimrodel can both protect and be a hunter, but that it's unlikely.

Agan:
- lots of suggestions that there's a cobbler, focused on McCaber.
- among other things, suggested Boro was killed for cobbler-hinting
- suggests that a better reason would be that the wolves wanted something specific (a cursed) more than they wanted to nab the "revealed" Agan!Seer. This is something that could, on its own, just be a way of trying to plausibly explain why Agan was still alive if she was really the Seer.
- "I'll be happy to give you Nimrodel's name if I see her suggest (as discreetly as she wants) she'd prefer I did that" - she may have been hoping that Nimrodel would say something, whether revealing herself and saying yes or subtly hinting a "no" to Agan.

Loslote:
The "cursed before" could have been her trying to contact wolves, but could have been entirely innocent too. This was also at a time when she was about to Night-kill Agan, so it could be odd to reach out to the wolves when she was trying hard to kill one.

All three of Kitanna, Rikae and Farael look like people that the wolves could reasonably have gone for on suspicion of Seerishness. The latter two missed an entire Day, and Kitanna left early and made a throwaway vote on Day 1 then didn't say much on Day 2.

I am concerned that perhaps Lottie could be untrustworthy and the village's remaining opponent, but frankly at this stage if she is it takes the game to levels of difficulty that I'm not sure I can manage to deal with right now.

I'm going to move on to look at the next two Days and see if anyone is looking as if they just got turned into a wolf there.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Known roles:
Shasta (wolf)
Copper (ordo)
Farael (ordo)
Sally (seer, duh)

Unknown roles:
Lottie
Rikae
Kitanna

In case anyone cares, the dreams are listed above in order.

Sooo, this game is utter insanity.

Assuming Nerwen would have told Sally if she dreamt Nimrodel (which why wouldn't she) that means one of these three unknowns is Nimrodel and one is a wolf and one is an ordo. I know I'm an ordo so will we be playing a round of musical reveals for the role of Nimrodel with the other two unknowns?

Thanks to Agan I'm not sure who to find guilty. Agan claimed to have dreamed Rikae innocent. Wolf on wolf? Wolf jumping on an innocent to confuse things later?

Then she suggested the remaining voters try to get Lottie lynched. Both Lottie and Rikae didn't believe Agan's reveal, but still didn't vote for her which I found odd then and I find odd now.

I have to get to work, but I'll be back around my lunch hour.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Then she suggested the remaining voters try to get Lottie lynched. Both Lottie and Rikae didn't believe Agan's reveal, but still didn't vote for her which I found odd then and I find odd now.

I can't speak for Lottie, but in my case: because she could have been the seer.
I didn't trust Agan, either, but I didn't vote for her.
I just like someone claiming to be a seer to give me a reason to believe her, before I follow her advice. Sally wouldn't tell her dreams (which a wolf would have done, to avoid making a mistake) and she pushed Nimrodel to reveal first (which a wolf would have also done). So I didn't trust her. I hoped other people would wait to hear her whole story before voting, and I was annoyed that they didn't.