Tom Bombadil

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by jallanite

Balfrog, I find, normally posts at The Lord of the Rings Fanatics Plaza where he is credited with 139 posts. His other posts seem to me to be sensible ones. For his post there on Breaking The Tolkien Code see http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread....et-Hidden-Code . The two responses don’t indicate much interest in the book.

Balfrog's sole other post here is identical to that one. As I said on that thread, I believe we are dealing with an author in self-promotion mode.

[Nerwen]

denethor, it's been been pretty well established that Tom is *meant* to be an enigma, so I don't think it makes much sense to claim that he's "really" any given thing.

Or are you just suggesting this as a way he could *theoretically* fit into Middle-earth? I mean without that being "the answer"?

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

denethor, it's been been pretty well established that Tom is *meant* to be an enigma, so I don't think it makes much sense to claim that he's "really" any given thing.

Or are you just suggesting this as a way he could *theoretically* fit into Middle-earth? I mean without that being "the answer"?

It seems to me that Tom could be a Maia, or perhaps better an Ainu, since the name Maia refers to one of the People of the Valar and that doesn’t fit well with Tom.

Nor do we know in what sense Tom was an Enigma. I can imagine Tolkien quite willing to accept Tom as a creature of the Maia type. The Enigma part would come from how Goldberry and River-woman fit it.

But of course Tolkien did not say, seemingly on purpose. Mahgain’s post points out that beings of the Valar and Maia type are not the only spirits in Tolkien’s Middle-earth.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by jallanite

It seems to me that Tom could be a Maia, or perhaps better an Ainu, since the name Maia refers to one of the People of the Valar and that doesn’t fit well with Tom.

Nor do we know in what sense Tom was an Enigma. I can imagine Tolkien quite willing to accept Tom as a creature of the Maia type. The Enigma part would come from how Goldberry and River-woman fit it.

But of course Tolkien did not say, seemingly on purpose. Mahgain’s post points out that beings of the Valar and Maia type are not the only spirits in Tolkien’s Middle-earth.

There is a difference between pointing out ways that Tom *could* fit into the universe, and claiming any one of them as the actual answer. I am not sure which of those things denethor is doing, which is why I asked him.

[denethorthefirst]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

denethor, it's been been pretty well established that Tom is *meant* to be an enigma, so I don't think it makes much sense to claim that he's "really" any given thing.

Or are you just suggesting this as a way he could *theoretically* fit into Middle-earth? I mean without that being "the answer"?

Yes. (That's the short answer )

Of course I know his real world history. See also my post #59

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

I think it is quite believable that Elrond forgot about Bombadil, they lived in the same region (the north-west of ME) for roughly 6000 years and maybe met once (maybe only shortly) earlier in that time when Bombadil wasn't as reclusive as later. It's also obvious that they have very different Personalities: why should the worldly, active and engaged leader-politician Elrond "remember" some strange eccentric he met sometime maybe 4000 years ago, when he hasn't seen him since and we take in account everything that happened during that time! Another thing: 6000 years may sound old but compared to Gandalf, Saruman, or even Elves like Cirdan, Galadriel and other Exiles Elrond is rather "young"; everything he knows about the creation and cosmology of ea and arda and a large part of the prehistoric history he knows from second hand sources: of course Bombadil is a "strange creature" for him, Elrond is not all-knowing.
Tolkien didn't explain Bombadil because he understood that a believable mythology needs loose ends and inconsistencies (like the real world Greek and Germanic myths that inspired him - they grew over time and don't always fit together, different parts contradict each other, or make.no sense, there are differences and changes in tone, and so on.)
But there is only one logical in-universe explanation for Bombadil: he has to be an unaffiliated Ainu - nothing else makes sense. The real mistery however is Goldberry. Who is the mysterious "River-Woman"? Just an elven Woman that lived by the River sometime during the great journey westward, or maybe an Ainu of Ulmo that dwelled inside the river and mated with one of the passing Elves (like Melian and Thingol) - eventually her partner died and she returned to Valinor leaving her Daughter with Bombadil?

But whatever his outside history, Ea is supposed to be a fairly consistent world with its own rules and laws. Forget for a moment that were talking about a work of fiction, suspend your disbelief; we are all in middle-earth, learned and cultured Dunedain or Elves: knowing what we do about the cosmology, what would we think about Bombadil? What would be our most logical conclusion regarding his nature? That he must be an unaffiliated/independent Ainu, it's the ONLY in-universe explanation that makes any sense.