Tom Bombadil

[denethorthefirst]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

One also cannot help but think that if there was some groundbreaking secret about Bombadil's identity it would not be the same trite, cliché line of speculation which has been proposed (and to my satisfaction at least, refuted) for years and years: "Bombadil is a Maia." How shocking.

That Tom Bombadil is a Maia (or more accurately: an unaffiliated Ainu) is, in my opinion, the only logical in-universe explanation. How is that theory refuted? Not to my knowledge. Its definitely not trite or boring: Ainu are still pretty rare, especially in Middle-Earth. The only problem is the repeated claim that Bombadil is somehow "first": but that can be easily explained away as: either hobbit folklore, that it simply means that he was the first in that particularly part of Arda, of that he maybe snuck past Melkor and actually was the the first (least likely option imo). His form would make a lot of sense in that case: in his burning curiosity and eagerness to experience the world he anticipated the coming elves and humans and clothed himself like the children of iluvatar (or as he perceived them in the music of the ainur); its a bit like Aule and the dwarves (Aule wanted to model his children after the children of Iluvatar, but because, like bombadil, his perception during the music was faulty and flawed the dwarven bodies, and bombadils body, look nothing like an elf or a human. In fact bombadil looks a bit like a dwarf himself: the "misshaping" of the dwarves may not have been Aules fault at all, maybe all the Ainur had a bit of a distorted picture of the children of iluvatar during the music. At the time of their arrival bombadil was maybe already fully incarnated because he lived for ages in that body (eating, drinking, sleeping, living) and could no longer change/correct it or he simply did no longer care (very likely given his character).

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

That Tom Bombadil is a Maia (or more accurately: an unaffiliated Ainu) is, in my opinion, the only logical in-universe explanation. How is that theory refuted?

What you're essentially asking here is to prove a negative: it can't be disproven that he's a Maia but that does not constitute proof that he is one.

There are actually plenty of logical in-universe explanations for what he could be, and none of them require him being a Vala or Maia. First of all let's take a quote from the Valaquenta:

...in majesty they are peers, surpassing beyond compare all others, whether of the Valar and the Maiar, or of any other order that Ilúvatar has sent into Ea.

So now that we've established that the Valar and the Maiar weren't the only spirits that entered into Ea, let's look at some potential examples of other spirits. Here's another quote, this time from the Ainulindale:

But Manwe was the brother of Melkor in the mind of Ilúvatar, and he was the chief instrument of the second theme that Ilúvatar had raised up against the discord of Melkor; and he called unto himself many spirits both greater and less, and they came down into the fields of Arda and aided Manwe...

That's example one; here's example two, from Of Aule and Yavanna:

When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared.

So right now we have two in-universe examples of candidates for what Tom Bombadil could be that don't necessarily involve him being either a Vala or a Maia. Therefore he doesn't have to be a Maia (and nor do any of the many other beings which it's normally assumed must be one).

[Mithalwen]

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=13207

A long time ago we did have fun with anagrams. A mixed bag but some gold in there. And for the record my personal title is not a coded confession of a hard drugs habit.

[denethorthefirst]

Originally Posted by mhagain

What you're essentially asking here is to prove a negative: it can't be disproven that he's a Maia but that does not constitute proof that he is one.

There are actually plenty of logical in-universe explanations for what he could be, and none of them require him being a Vala or Maia.

I never wrote that he's one of those. "Vala" and "Maia" are job descriptions, but both are Ainur (their "race" so to speak). I think hes an unaffiliated Ainu ... Maybe he was a Maia in the beginning, but it's also possible that he was pretty independent from the start.

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

I never wrote that he's one of those. "Vala" and "Maia" are job descriptions, but both are Ainur (their "race" so to speak). I think hes an unaffiliated Ainu ... Maybe he was a Maia in the beginning, but it's also possible that he was pretty independent from the start.

There's a subtle distinction here.

The Ainur were created first and participated in the Music, then they entered into the world at the beginning of time.

That's not necessarily the case for the other spirits. They need not have been created first and they need not have participated in the Music, and this would make them not-Ainur. Since we know these other spirits did exist, they could just as easily have been created as part of the Music (the Ents definitely were; recall Yavanna's "yet it was in the Song ... some sang to Iluvatar amid the wind and the rain").

That makes them neither Ainur nor Children, and - if they were created as part of the Music - they would also have been already a part of the world when the Valar and the Maiar entered into it, which would also nicely satisfy Tom's claim to be "first"/"eldest"/etc.

[denethorthefirst]

That's a good point ... So he's not necessarily an Ainu, but he may be a Spirit (Ealar) that became fully incarnated? It's not as neat as the Ainu-explanation because his origin and purpose is still unclear. If he's an Ainu he has a clear origin and maybe even purpose (shape/build arda and guard the children) even if he's a bit negligent in that regard. Or he is some kind of a rogue/neutral Ainu and came to Arda independently and of his own accord, then he may not identify with the purpose of the other Ainu (but he seems to love the creation, so he can't be completely nonchalant about its fate).

[Zigûr]

To be honest I don't think Bombadil is "anything" really. I don't think there's an "in-universe" explanation that causes him to conform to some other established race/species/whatever.

I think he's just Bombadil.

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

If he's an Ainu he has a clear origin and maybe even purpose (shape/build arda and guard the children) even if he's a bit negligent in that regard.

Of course if he wasn't an Ainu then his apparent negligence wouldn't need to be explained away - because he wouldn't be negligent.

I don't see why he even needs to have a purpose within Ea, to be honest - or at least a purpose that's relevant to the main action of the stories that Tolkien was writing.

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by mhagain

I don't see why he even needs to have a purpose within Ea, to be honest - or at least a purpose that's relevant to the main action of the stories that Tolkien was writing.

But he did serve purpose to the plot and atmosphere. Without Tom, the hobbits would be stuck in a barrow, or imprisoned by Old Man Willow. The Witch King would not have been defeated without the swords found in the barrows, which was part of Tom's section in the story.

If you are referring to the journey of the Ring to Orodruin as the main action of the stories, then Tom is a lot less important, but his impact on the story was meaningful.

Plot aside, Tom's purpose was adding to the atmosphere of the Old Forest, and to exhibit classical magic.