Was the Balrog drawn by the ring?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

Ok, so while we can't agree on whether the ring tempted the Balrog, which I don't think it did, I am fairly sure it knew of its existence and was less of 'drawn to it', but more of 'aware of it and trying to take it to its master'.

There is no indication anywhere that the balrog knew anything about the ring, was aware of its making or that Sauron was its owner. The balrog had been hiding in Moria for ages, and, at least technically speaking, Morgoth was the balrog's master, not Sauron.

I doubt the balrog would return the Ring to Sauron if he got hold of it. Why should he? Balrogs were not pawns like the Nazgul, they were Maiar.

[Belegorn]

Balrogs and Sauron = peers under Morgoth. If the Balrog took the Ring I'd think he'd keep it for himself. I also think the Ring could effect other Maiar, it certainly even had an effect on its maker. This is why the Wise would not try to use it to fight Sauron. It was quite dangerous. I'm not sure the extent of it's influence. Like could it even bring out this nature of dominating in even more powerful spirits such as the Valar? I do not know. Certainly it would not be a danger for them to face Sauron with the Ring because they could overpower him, whereas his peers would be in greater danger trying to take Sauron out with the Ring.

[Tar-Jêx]

Yeah, those are some pretty valid points. However, since Sauron shares a similar purpose to Melkor, and the Balrogs sought to serve Melkor, it would be in their best interests to use the ring in some way. I just remembered that the ring is still just a ring.

Revised theory:
The Balrog was definitely awoken by the Fellowship's interference and calamity of the goblins, and Gandalf seemed to know that it was coming instantly. It would have gone towards the source of commotion, which was the Fellowship. The Balrog could not have known about the ring and was attacking the Fellowship because they woke him up.


Belegorn, I doubt that the ring would have any effect on the Valar, as they are essentially gods.

[Leaf]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

Revised theory:
The Balrog was definitely awoken by the Fellowship's interference and calamity of the goblins, and Gandalf seemed to know that it was coming instantly. It would have gone towards the source of commotion, which was the Fellowship.

How do we know that the Balrog was definitely awoken by the noise the Fellowship made? A few years earlier plenty of Dwarves were digging, mining and fighting with the Orcs in Moria for an extended period of time (a few years!), yet it didn´t care for this a little bit. But when someone drops a stone into a well it awakes and hunts the intruders down?! That seems kinda weird to me.

The Balrog could not have known about the ring and was attacking the Fellowship because they woke him up.

The Balrog didn´t need to know anything about the Ring to get drawn by it. The watcher in the water most certainly didn´t know anything about the ring, yet it still tried to grab Frodo first. The same goes for the orkish captain that attack Frodo with his spear. Even Shelob chose to ignore Sam to chase Frodo.

[Tar-Jêx]

That is a fair point about the Balrog not being awoken by the battles between the dwarves and the goblins, but it did eventually show up. Maybe it was trying to find a way up to them?

On the topic of knowing the ring was there, Maiar like Gandalf and Saruman were not aware if the ring was with them unless they could physically see it.
After all, it IS still just a ring.
The watcher in the water would be an interesting topic for debate, but it is likely that the Balrog was a more powerful entity, more resistant to the magic of the ring. I doubt the Balrog would have pursued the ring because he would not have seen it. It can have a hold on people, but they do need to be somewhat close to it. Sauron's power wasn't so great that people would always go towards the ring like a magnet.
If the Balrog was drawn to the ring, would he have not tried to go past Gandalf, rather than fight him in honourable battle? Or maybe the idea of honourable battle with another Maiar was greater temptation to it.

[Leaf]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

That is a fair point about the Balrog not being awoken by the battles between the dwarves and the goblins, but it did eventually show up. Maybe it was trying to find a way up to them?

What do you mean when you say "but it did eventually show up"?! Are you refering to the time when the fellowship enters Moria, or do you think it eventually showed up to the final battle against Balins colony?! I find it hard to believe that the Balrog got lost in Moria, which by all means was his realm, and that it took him 5 years (!) to finally find the Dwarves. I really doubt that. Furthermore I have yet to find evidence that the Balrog took part in this final battle anyway.

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

On the topic of knowing the ring was there, Maiar like Gandalf and Saruman were not aware if the ring was with them unless they could physically see it. After all, it IS still just a ring.

I said earlier that I find this rigid ranking of supernatural beings to be very problematic. The equation "Gandalf and Saruman are Maiar. The Balrog is a Maia aswell. Therefore these three beings have to share the same features" simplifies and blurres the constellation, or relationship, of these different beings. We do not learn anything about the Maiar in the Lord of the Rings because it´s unnecessary information (regarding this context). We do not know that Gandalf, Saruman and the Balrog allegedly have the same essence and origin. What we know is that Gandalf is an wizard and the Balrog is a supernatural and powerful being of evil. We also know that the Ring attracts evil creatures in general. So in this case I would argue that the Balrog did not need to know about the Ring, in any practical way, to be aware and drawn by it.

Edit to clarify: It is hard to determine in what way exactly the Balrog got drawn by the ring. But it doesn´t need to be like a force which turns the Balrog into a mindless slave, leaving him with no choice or will in this matter. It could very well be more like a presence of some kind which draws the Balrogs attention and curiosity.

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

The watcher in the water would be an interesting topic for debate, but it is likely that the Balrog was a more powerful entity, more resistant to the magic of the ring. I doubt the Balrog would have pursued the ring because he would not have seen it. It can have a hold on people, but they do need to be somewhat close to it. Sauron's power wasn't so great that people would always go towards the ring like a magnet.

If the Ring doesnt hold the power to draw evil creatures "like a magnet" why is Frodo so often the primary target of evil creatures who attack the fellowship as a whole?! Why does the watcher in the water grab Frodo first? Why does the Orc captain throw himself with his spear against Frodo?! Why did Shelob ignore Sam to chase Frodo down?! Those are a few to many cases to be mere coincidences. And here is one of Gandalfs remarks to Frodo about this subject:

Originally Posted by The lord of the rings;The fellowship of the ring;The shadow of the past

These Rings have a way of being found. In evil hands it might have done great evil. Worst of all, it might have fallen into the hands of the Enemy. Indeed it certainly would; for this is the One, and he is exerting all his power to find it or draw it to himself.

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

If the Balrog was drawn to the ring, would he have not tried to go past Gandalf, rather than fight him in honourable battle?

Well, it did try to go past Gandalf, didn´t it?! Hence Gandalfs famous "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" outcry. To get any further it had to confront and fight Gandalf because he was standing in its way (on a narrow bridge). Where did you get the idea that the Balrog fought Gandalf because it was the honourable thing to do?!

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Leaf

Well, it did try to go past Gandalf, didn´t it?! Hence Gandalfs famous "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" outcry. To get any further it had to confront and fight Gandalf because he was standing in its way (on a narrow bridge). Where did you get the idea that the Balrog fought Gandalf because it was the honourable thing to do?!

Actually, I suppose that actually does give a little more weight to the "no" side in the "Balrog Wing Argument". If the Balrog DID have wings (and actually was drawn to the ring) why on Arda would it not have simply flown over/under/to the side of Gandalf and the bridge to make a beeline for Frodo? Even if (in some theoretical way) the Balrog could perceive that Gandalf WAS a fellow Maia, it would have been immediately obvious to it that he couldn't FLY?

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Leaf

What do you mean when you say "but it did eventually show up"?! Are you refering to the time when the fellowship enters Moria, or do you think it eventually showed up to the final battle against Balins colony?! I find it hard to believe that the Balrog got lost in Moria, which by all means was his realm, and that it took him 5 years (!) to finally find the Dwarves. I really doubt that. Furthermore I have yet to find evidence that the Balrog took part in this final battle anyway.

Whatever else might be said about the Balrog, he was either mostly dormant or had become profoundly reclusive. I think it was a little bit of both.

He and the orcs had to be aware of each other and through the orcs awareness, Sauron must have been aware of him too. Unlike Smaug, who Sauron wanted to utilize, the Balrog was in Moria with Sauron's servants and yet the Balrog never left Moria. Was Sauron not interested in utilizing the Balrog in the war, or did the Balrog just refuse to participate?

Personally I think the Balrog's primary motivation was a desire to be left alone. He may have found being on the losing end of the War of Wrath a scarring experience. He may have slept through Balin's occupation, or perhaps he had no desire to meddle with them and possibly alert the world to his presence. Sauron's orcs returning to destroy the colony may have roused him in some way.

Then here comes the Fellowship causing noise and bother. It must have been annoying.