I Found the Entwives!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I have a theory that Entwives live happily in Lothlorien tending the Mallorn trees.

If that were the case though, surely Treebeard would have known. In addition, Aragorn had visited Lórien many times, yet the Ents were unknown to him. The Mirkwood Elves too would seem to have been well placed to at least have heard of their presence, yet Legolas knew nothing more of Ents and Entwives than old songs of his people.

[Morthoron]

Sauron turned the entwives into trolls, and taught them how to drop their aitches.

Bad grammar, the greatest sin of Sauron.

[Tar-Verimuchli]

I'm not sure Sauron or any of his followers had the knowledge of agriculture necessary to establish crops in the fields of Nurn that could feed the armies of Mordor. It seems reasonable that either captured Entwives or men who had been taught by Entwives may have had a hand in this.

[Tar-Verimuchli]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Sauron turned the entwives into trolls, and taught them how to drop their aitches.

Thomasina, Berta and Wilhelmena. I'd imagine their conversation would have been more like a Mrs Brown's Boys sketch if that had been the case.

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If that were the case though, surely Treebeard would have known. In addition, Aragorn had visited Lórien many times, yet the Ents were unknown to him. The Mirkwood Elves too would seem to have been well placed to at least have heard of their presence, yet Legolas knew nothing more of Ents and Entwives than old songs of his people.

I think maybe they were present in spirit, their bodies having been destroyed by orcs.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I think maybe they were present in spirit, their bodies having been destroyed by orcs.

Haunting the place isn't exactly the same thing as "living happily"' though, is it?

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Haunting the place isn't exactly the same thing as "living happily"' though, is it?

depends on your definition of haunting. I dont happen to call it haunting as in spooks floating around a graveyard going 'wooo', but more a Genius loci perhaps sent by Yavanna, seeing as she loves all growing things I suspect Entwives would be dear to her.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

depends on your definition of haunting. I dont happen to call it haunting as in spooks floating around a graveyard going 'wooo', but more a Genius loci perhaps sent by Yavanna, seeing as she loves all growing things I suspect Entwives would be dear to her.

Spirits in Middle-earth proper (outside of Valinor and the Halls of Mandos) are almost exclusively cast in a negative light: the Paths of the Dead, the Dead Marshes, the Barrows, etc. There really are no "happy spirits" inhabiting Tolkien's world, nor is there any textual evidence for any such conclusion.

Now, if you were to suggest that the entwives became treeish (bushy? bloomlike? shrubbish? ), then there is a precedent for that amongst ents and huorns; however, considering the Fellowship stayed for quite a while in Lorien without any hint of such a phenomenon, then it's still far-fetched.

[FerniesApple]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Spirits in Middle-earth proper (outside of Valinor and the Halls of Mandos) are almost exclusively cast in a negative light: the Paths of the Dead, the Dead Marshes, the Barrows, etc. There really are no "happy spirits" inhabiting Tolkien's world, nor is there any textual evidence for any such conclusion.

Now, if you were to suggest that the entwives became treeish (bushy? bloomlike? shrubbish? ), then there is a precedent for that amongst ents and huorns; however, considering the Fellowship stayed for quite a while in Lorien without any hint of such a phenomenon, then it's still far-fetched.

never suggested there was textual evidence. its my own pet theory. I like it as it is. Also I dont take a narrow view on what is and isnt a spirit.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

never suggested there was textual evidence. its my own pet theory. I like it as it is. Also I dont take a narrow view on what is and isnt a spirit.

I understand this is a "pet theory" of yours. I was just wondering if there was any semblance of precedent in your conjecture. As there really isn't a hint of canon to support it, there's nothing further to discuss.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I like it as it is. Also I dont take a narrow view on what is and isnt a spirit.

Of the Ents' beginnings, The Silmarillion states that they were due to arrive when Yavanna's thought would 'summon spirits from afar'. Manwë seems to put them in the same category as the Eagles of the West, as also beings not born in bodies, but with a spiritual entry causing them to 'awake'. It seems to be a catchall explanation for everything from Eagles, to Huan, and maybe even to Tom Bombadil, to say that they are bodies inhabited by Auinur, but that really does seem the likely canon rationalization.