WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Rikae]

Encai

Day 2 – Gives Inzil a fourth vote when Mac has three, although due to cross-posting she would have thought it was Inzil's third to Mac's one and her own two. Iow, if there's anything behind it but suspecting Inzil, it would probably be self-preservation.

Inzil

-On Mac's “your side”, day 2 “You're lucky I missed that, as I could certainly have thought it voteworthy”

Day 2 – his “I was the first” stuff. Defensive? Indeed. Leonine? Not so much. I still think a lion would have checked before making that statement.

Post #304, Inzil gives Mac his second vote when he already has 2 himself (3 actually, but he crossed with Wyth's vote for him) and Encai has 2. I don't think a lion would do this, either.


Lommy

- Mac says of Lommy, day 1 “This would make me suspicious as well, for the same reasons as above. "The lovers are not as bad as I said before, but they're still very bad". The thing is, would a wolf state it in all-bold? “
The sort of wishy-washy “suspicion” a lion might use either to nudge suspicions toward an innocent while keeping his hands clean, or to distance himself from a fellow. However, it's worth noting that this is NOT the most suspicious thing about Lommy's statement: Mac is glossing over, and drawing attention away from, its hintishness.

- Lommy on Day 2: “Evil!Mac and evil!Volo seem like options too, but I think they were both suspected more by someone else, and the phrasing is not especially seerish at least in this post. “ and in the same post “And what is this talk about wolves wanting to off the hunter?? *looks especially at Rikae* Whenever people suggest the wolves killed someone for any other reason other than seeming seerish, it smells of covering trails to me. The wolves need to get rid of the seer, first and foremost. There needs to be a good reason not to go for someone who looks seerish to them.”

So, Gal wouldn't look seerish to Mac, but it is apparently inconceivable that no one looked seerish? I guess this is a point in Lommy's favor. I doubt a lion would be so locked onto the idea that Gal must have looked seerish for some reason.

Nog
- Reading Day 1, Nog is really quick to cast suspicion for flimsy reasons. Everything seems to be a possible wolf-slip in his eyes.

- Day 2 - Nog is the one who pointed out that Gal's playing style was different and it would have made her look generally gifted, while also saying that she didn't seem to be a seer who dreamt of Mac.
I agree with the latter point: others suspected Mac, so it wouldn't make sense for them to target her for that reason. I consider it likely the first reason is indeed the reason they went for Gal, but I only noticed it in retrospect, when Nog pointed it out. Perhaps Nog pointed it out to his fellows on the previous night as well?

Also, kind of a meta point against Nog – he isn't suspecting me, or arguing with me. When he's innocent, he pretty much always thinks whatever I'm saying is flagrantly wrong and goes on a crusade against it. I can't imagine I'm suddenly talking sense in his eyes; more likely, he's evil.
In particular, he picks up on a couple offhand/throwaway comments of mine and agrees with them in post #236. It gives a “buttering up” vibe.

Gives Mac his 5th vote when Inzil already has 5. At this point Inzil would still be lynched – lion!Nog would be making himself look very nice in the event of a Mac lynch, but not necessarily lynching Mac. I don't believe for a minute he wouldn't do this. Nogwolf is notorious for throwing comrades under the bus.

Once again I'm running out of time. At any rate, from what I've looked at so far
++Nogrod

Is the clear winner.

[Nogrod]

Oh. I see Rikae finally opened the game.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Also, kind of a meta point against Nog – he isn't suspecting me, or arguing with me. When he's innocent, he pretty much always thinks whatever I'm saying is flagrantly wrong and goes on a crusade against it.

Now if you really are a wolf, you were too hasty I think.

Although I'm also kind of disappointed... I thought you would have made a better one. I could have done a better case against myself.


Yes, I have been suspecting you Rikae on some gut-level for some time already but purposefully avoided a clash as I have kind of enjoyd the game without fire and brimstone thus far - and because I've had better candidates for suspicion anyway. So with you I have been kind of waiting if you make a move... and now it seems you took the gloves off... Hmm.

There is an interesting football match starting in a moment and I'm going to watch it and have some dinner, but I'll be back for the last two hours. Let's see if there is still something in the "Mac-diaries" or other promising leads. If not, then let's lynch Rikae - or me. We can nicely afford even lynching me toDay with the numbers we have if you then lynch her the next Day.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Oh. I see Rikae finally opened the game.

Now if you really are a wolf, you were too hasty I think.

Although I'm also kind of disappointed... I thought you would have made a better one. I could have done a better case against myself.

Well, sorry, but I have to spend the day with my in-laws, so you'll have to take what you can get. Be my guest, though. I'm sure you can give us all the real reasons you are suspicious. Who would be more qualified?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Yes, I have been suspecting you Rikae on some gut-level for some time already but purposefully avoided a clash as I have kind of enjoyd the game without fire and brimstone thus far - and because I've had better candidates for suspicion anyway. So with you I have been kind of waiting if you make a move... and now it seems you took the gloves off... Hmm.

I suspect you for not suspecting me -> you've suspected me all along, really? If you're innocent, it's a pity friendliness kept you from doing your best to hunt lions (I don't believe that for a second).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There is an interesting football match starting in a moment and I'm going to watch it and have some dinner, but I'll be back for the last two hours. Let's see if there is still something in the "Mac-diaries" or other promising leads. If not, then let's lynch Rikae - or me. We can nicely afford even lynching me toDay with the numbers we have if you then lynch her the next Day.

I'm just an ordo and have little time to play - you could do worse.

That's all the time I have now - I won't be back before deadline, I'm afraid.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

I looks like Rikae actually started preparing her attack already a bit earlier with that oddish:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nog is the one who's really bothering me toDay, math aside. I just get a feeling he's trying to subtly steer conversation in unhelpful directions.

If trying to convince some others that we should not "try to catch the Bear" (as there is no way of doing it) but hunt lions and actually getting the winning conditions clarified is steering the conversation in unhelpful directions - and not only that, but also unhelpful in such a magnitude it actually makes her seriously suspect me for because I did those things... well I can't see we're playing the same game or sharing the same reality.

So that was bogus.

The rest is as fabricated.

Originally Posted by Rikae

- Reading Day 1, Nog is really quick to cast suspicion for flimsy reasons. Everything seems to be a possible wolf-slip in his eyes.

That's D1 and everyone should try to find any suspiciousness everywhere. That's the point of the game. Also, I think there were two possible "slips" I discussed (although I'm not sure if they were both on D1), which obviously isn't "everywhere".

- Day 2 - Nog is the one who pointed out that Gal's playing style was different and it would have made her look generally gifted, while also saying that she didn't seem to be a seer who dreamt of Mac.
I agree with the latter point: others suspected Mac, so it wouldn't make sense for them to target her for that reason. I consider it likely the first reason is indeed the reason they went for Gal, but I only noticed it in retrospect, when Nog pointed it out. Perhaps Nog pointed it out to his fellows on the previous night as well?

I'm not quite getting this... but it seems clear all actual suspicion here is in the end, with: Perhaps Nog pointed it out to his fellows on the previous night as well? Sorry but I don't get what is this about. Perhaps someone said something to someone during the Night? How does it relate to anything - fex. if a lion said something to a fellow-lion at Night why should s/he say it again during the next Day? Or if a lion says something during the Day how do you infer from there s/he could have said the same thing the previous Night - and what that has to do with anything?

Also, kind of a meta point against Nog – he isn't suspecting me, or arguing with me. When he's innocent, he pretty much always thinks whatever I'm saying is flagrantly wrong and goes on a crusade against it. I can't imagine I'm suddenly talking sense in his eyes; more likely, he's evil.
In particular, he picks up on a couple offhand/throwaway comments of mine and agrees with them in post #236. It gives a “buttering up” vibe.

Need I comment to this? I used to enjoy dogfights and duels years ago... and I had more enthusiasm making crusades. We people change and peole who have played with me both years ago and more recently know that.

Gives Mac his 5th vote when Inzil already has 5. At this point Inzil would still be lynched – lion!Nog would be making himself look very nice in the event of a Mac lynch, but not necessarily lynching Mac. I don't believe for a minute he wouldn't do this. Nogwolf is notorious for throwing comrades under the bus.

I didn't use two votes to immediately get Mac lynched - so I'm a lion? Now, give me a break. I've thrown mates under the bus in few games where I have been a wolf but my experiences of that are mostly negative - and in this-sized village it would be stupid for a lion to lynch a mate as now with only two lions left the numbers are really against them. And really: if you take that kind of possibility as a proof of my lionity, well I don't know what to say about the quality of your points?

Originally Posted by Rikae

I suspect you for not suspecting me -> you've suspected me all along, really? If you're innocent, it's a pity friendliness kept you from doing your best to hunt lions (I don't believe that for a second).

First some close reading:

I have been suspecting you Rikae on some gut-level for some time (Me)
you've suspected me all along (Rikae)

but purposefully avoided a clash as I have kind of enjoyd the game without fire and brimstone thus far - and because I've had better candidates for suspicion anyway (Me)
it's a pity friendliness kept you from doing your best to hunt lions (I don't believe that for a second) (Rikae)

Honestly Rikae?

So all that is fabricated... I think the lions are getting desperate and they had to come forwards with some radical attempts.

That said, I'm quite ready to vote Rikae toDay as I don't see why an innocent or normal gifted would go to such lengths making that flawed case against someone she doesn't know the role of?


Uhh... the game was palyed overtime and this seems to have taken me longer I thought... Back reading now.