Are Elves vegatarian?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

Elves were spiritual, and spiritual people/creatures refrain killing others for their own benefit, be it for food. Elves, being First Born, were not supposed to do so, as they did not smoke.

Yet, they did hunt. I see no evidence that their status as the Firstborn precluded hunting, or using animals in other ways. They simply would not have been wasteful, or indiscriminate with what they killed. Elves were also in tune with forests and trees, yet they used wood for fires, tools, and building.

As for the smoking, that was a habit peculiar to western Eriador, attributable to Hobbits, that had not even been introduced until the Third Age. Only those, like the Men of Bree and the Dwarves who commonly dealt with Hobbits, were likely to have taken it up, or even known of it.

[mhagain]

Post-LotR work on the Silmarillion (published in Morgoth's Ring) indicates that the Elves certainly did hunt, the most telling quote being:

The Elves had before possessed only weapons of the chase, spears and bows and arrows.

There's also Aule's reply to Yavanna after his making of the Dwarves:

That shall also be true of the Children of Iluvatar; for they will eat and they will build. And though the things of thy realm have worth in themselves, and would have worth if no Children were to come, yet Eru will give them dominion, and they shall use all that they find in Arda: though not, by the purpose of Eru, without respect or without gratitude.

The concept of Elves as vegetarian hippies living in commune with nature is true only of the Nandor, but is otherwise largely a later trope, perhaps a case of a D&D-ism working backwards and infecting Tolkien, but in Tolkien's own writings there's no grounds for this trope.

[Lotrelf]

I did not say being Firstborn would keep them from killing or hunting. It was a general question since Elves were the most spiritual creatures, and they loved nature. So their affection towards natural things i.e. Trees and Animals etc. would be dear to them. They instead of hunting or killing, would preserve them.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

I did not say being Firstborn would keep them from killing or hunting. It was a general question since Elves were the most spiritual creatures, and they loved nature. So their affection towards natural things i.e. Trees and Animals etc. would be dear to them. They instead of hunting or killing, would preserve them.

Er- what exactly is your point here, Lotrelf? If an author explicitly says his characters do something, how can you argue they don't?

[mhagain]

One thing we can say that Elves probably don't eat is mushrooms.

This comes from a passage omitted from the Druedain material in UT but given in Of Dwarves and Men:

To the astonishment of Elves and other Men they ate funguses with pleasure ... the Eldar did not eat these things.

Tolkien struck this passage out, noting that it was "too like Hobbits", so it's up to us to decide if this was also a rejection of Elves not eating mushrooms.

Note also that he said "Eldar", so the Avari possibly do eat them.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by mhagain

Note also that he said "Eldar", so the Avari possibly do eat them.

Since Mîm the Petty-Dwarf said of the "proud ones from over the Sea" that they were "too proud to delve", I would be inclined to think they weren't all that keen on eating things they had to dig out of the ground. I can see them eating berries and things from vines and trees more easily.

Anyway, there's not "mushroom" for doubt that they at least ate meat.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Anyone, there's not "mushroom" for doubt that they at least ate meat.

I like it when people go to the truffle of adding a pun in their response.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Er- what exactly is your point here, Lotrelf? If an author explicitly says his characters do something, how can you argue they don't?

I did not argue. I did not know that Professor had explicitly said something about this. I found that out from here. I didn't start this thread to "argue", but to know if They ate meat or not. After first few replies I couldn't make my mind to agree, but now, after, so much has been said I believe Elves ate meat and were non-vegatarians.

And, Yes, I asked this question because in The Hobbit 1, Dwarves are NOT served meat.

[Morthoron]

Vegetables are what Elves eat when they can't get hobbit.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Vegetables are what Elves eat when they can't get hobbit.

Can't get Hobbit for what?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

I did not argue. I did not know that Professor had explicitly said something about this. I found that out from here. I didn't start this thread to "argue", but to know if They ate meat or not. After first few replies I couldn't make my mind to agree, but now, after, so much has been said I believe Elves ate meat and were non-vegatarians.

And, Yes, I asked this question because in The Hobbit 1, Dwarves are NOT served meat.

I am pretty sure the movie Elves are meant to be vegetarian, yes. As someone said already, this is such a common trope of later fiction that people often just assume it applies to Tolkien's work as well- and I guess Jackson is one of those people.

And I'm using "argue" to mean "put forward a case", not "fight".

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Vegetables are what Elves eat when they can't get hobbit.

More misinformation. There is clear evidence that Elves made and consumed this as a staple.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I am pretty sure the movie Elves are meant to be vegetarian, yes. As someone said already, this is such a common trope of later fiction that people often just assume it applies to Tolkien's work as well- and I guess Jackson is one of those people.

It does indeed seem to fit the mold of Elves, or other beings associated with "nature" as being incapable of using fellow creatures for anything. Never mind the fact that it's awfully difficult to live on berries and bark, and walk around naked in the woods in winter due to an a refusal to use pelts or hides.