What caused Frodo to finally give in to the power of the Ring and claim it? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

tom the eldest · 04-20-2014, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

It isn't that simple. What was it the Ring offered to Isildur? What was it the Ring offered to Frodo? Isildur being a King, proud and powerful was more susceptible to the Ring's power. Also Men are said to be "weak" when it comes to resisting the Ring's power. What caused Frodo to give in? What was his deepest desire? What was it he needed that the Ring could give him? Sam rejected the temptation because he thought he doesn't need any of the stuff the Ring promised him to give. Would he have been able to do that in Frodo's place? Nope. Frodo lost EVERYTHING. Tolkien says "He had spent every drop of his power of will and body", and he lacked everything at this point. It is likely the Ring offered him that, that he lacked. What was it he lacked? Everything.

Probably the ring oberloaded frodo with so much despair,an illusionary vision,like all his friend dead,sauron rule middle-earth,darkness upon shire,etc.even though hobbit are though,they still can be break with enough despair.i think that what made frodo give in,a vision of what if he fails and sauron take the ring.after the ring suceeded in misguiding frodo,it will pretend that it will follow frodo and betray sauron,when it is the other way around.sauron find frodo,grab the ring,kill frodo,and the west will fail,and sauron will rule middle-ear5h

Pervinca Took · 04-20-2014, 03:14 AM

Very interesting thoughts, Lotrelf and Tom. That it offered him *everything* back - that really made me think. I had thought of its offering him peace and rest before, but never a restoration of what he had lost. I think that the Ring would have appealed to his intellect, too, though, not just a wish for restoration of self - of what he previously was and had. In fact I think a promise of deliverance and relief might have been more potent than a promise to restore all that he had lost. What he "might have had" became, perhaps, more of an issue after he survived, having not expected to. I see Frodo as having increasingly adopted a kind of "tunnel vision" to keep going and try to get the job done - everything else was sacrificed. The symbolism of the orcs physically taking *everything* from him in Cirith Ungol is a part of this process and perhaps accelerates Frodo's own internal sacrifice of being "stripped to his essential self" (I'm echoing a piece of Tolkien literary criticism here, and can't remember the exact source). What happened to him physically in the tower then happens to him spiritually - even more is taken away from him - taste, sound, even memories of anything beautiful. Perhaps "you can have your old life back" was used as a temptation across the plains of Mordor, though ... but I think he'd accepted the loss and just wanted ending, release.

Tom's theory is also intriguing ... I'll try to come back with some thoughts on that later.

The thing is, the Ring wouldn't have had much more work to do in appealing to Frodo's logic and intellect; it had already won that battle in Bag End when he had been unable to throw it into his own fireplace "because" "the gold looked very fair and pure ... a thing altogether precious." How much more powerful would this argument of "logic" have been in the Sammath Naur? I think the torment and "stripping" process was how the Ring worked in trying to stop him getting to the Sammath Naur in the first place. A simple but powerful intellectual argument would be all that was needed in the Chamber of Fire itself, when it had already worked in the comfort of his own sitting-room. It's a different kind of temptation, because he's trying to do a different deed. Up until now he has tried to avoid claiming it and putting it on, but hasn't had to give up possession. Now he has to try and not only give up possession (the ability to do which he once had, but had lost by Cirith Ungol), but destroy the thing as well. As Tolkien stated in one of the Letters, he could only have done the latter by not doing the former, and hurling himself into the lava with the Ring. Thankfully that wasn't necessary ....

FerniesApple · 08-21-2014, 03:07 PM

I think Tolkiens experiences in the trenches would have told him that sheer physical exhaustion, lack of sleep, hunger and fear itself can demoralize the strongest soldier. Hobbits being more resilient than men just lasted longer before the corruption entered his soul, and then like a dam bursting all at once the Ring held him in its grip. It could have felt in danger so put forth its last attempt to survive.

04-20-2014, 03:14 AM	#2
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Very interesting thoughts, Lotrelf and Tom. That it offered him everything back - that really made me think. I had thought of its offering him peace and rest before, but never a restoration of what he had lost. I think that the Ring would have appealed to his intellect, too, though, not just a wish for restoration of self - of what he previously was and had. In fact I think a promise of deliverance and relief might have been more potent than a promise to restore all that he had lost. What he "might have had" became, perhaps, more of an issue after he survived, having not expected to. I see Frodo as having increasingly adopted a kind of "tunnel vision" to keep going and try to get the job done - everything else was sacrificed. The symbolism of the orcs physically taking everything from him in Cirith Ungol is a part of this process and perhaps accelerates Frodo's own internal sacrifice of being "stripped to his essential self" (I'm echoing a piece of Tolkien literary criticism here, and can't remember the exact source). What happened to him physically in the tower then happens to him spiritually - even more is taken away from him - taste, sound, even memories of anything beautiful. Perhaps "you can have your old life back" was used as a temptation across the plains of Mordor, though ... but I think he'd accepted the loss and just wanted ending, release. Tom's theory is also intriguing ... I'll try to come back with some thoughts on that later. The thing is, the Ring wouldn't have had much more work to do in appealing to Frodo's logic and intellect; it had already won that battle in Bag End when he had been unable to throw it into his own fireplace "because" "the gold looked very fair and pure ... a thing altogether precious." How much more powerful would this argument of "logic" have been in the Sammath Naur? I think the torment and "stripping" process was how the Ring worked in trying to stop him getting to the Sammath Naur in the first place. A simple but powerful intellectual argument would be all that was needed in the Chamber of Fire itself, when it had already worked in the comfort of his own sitting-room. It's a different kind of temptation, because he's trying to do a different deed. Up until now he has tried to avoid claiming it and putting it on, but hasn't had to give up possession. Now he has to try and not only give up possession (the ability to do which he once had, but had lost by Cirith Ungol), but destroy the thing as well. As Tolkien stated in one of the Letters, he could only have done the latter by not doing the former, and hurling himself into the lava with the Ring. Thankfully that wasn't necessary .... __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 04-20-2014 at 11:14 AM.

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08-21-2014, 03:07 PM	#3
FerniesApple Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 92	I think Tolkiens experiences in the trenches would have told him that sheer physical exhaustion, lack of sleep, hunger and fear itself can demoralize the strongest soldier. Hobbits being more resilient than men just lasted longer before the corruption entered his soul, and then like a dam bursting all at once the Ring held him in its grip. It could have felt in danger so put forth its last attempt to survive.