Gandalf's comment about Frodo - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 03-11-2014, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

How? After getting the Ring, Bilbo stopped aging; Gollum lived for more than 500 years. This means: They stopped aging. Why would Frodo look old, then.? He had stopped aging as well, as we are told in FOTR. Or we are saying the same thing, his "growing wisdom", but differently?

Bilbo and Gollum were not actively resisting the Ring's pull on a constant basis. And Gollum had had his years lengthened by his possession of the Ring, but he hardly looked fresh as a daisy by the time Bilbo met him.

Lotrelf · 03-11-2014, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Bilbo and Gollum were not actively resisting the Ring's pull on a constant basis. And Gollum had had his years lengthened by his possession of the Ring, but he hardly looked fresh as a daisy by the time Bilbo met him.

You're right, there! Gollum's case is different. He had surpassed the normal age of his life. But Bilbo would look younger than he actually was. He couldn't appear older than his actual appearance. How come Frodo looked older? The Ring played a part is true.

Galadriel55 · 03-11-2014, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

You're right, there! Gollum's case is different. He had surpassed the normal age of his life. But Bilbo would look younger than he actually was. He couldn't appear older than his actual appearance. How come Frodo looked older? The Ring played a part is true.

Frodo also looked quite young for his age when he left the Shire, but his internal active battle with the Ring wore him down during the course of the few following months probably more than even the physical trials of the journey. I think that is what Zil was referring to.

Pervinca Took · 03-11-2014, 04:23 PM

It says that Sam sees Frodo (just before he makes the rabbit stew) "as if the chiselling of the shaping years was now revealed in many fine lines that had before been hidden," as if Sam is observing Frodo's 50 years of life as they would really have looked without the Ring, but when he looks again, he says "Too thin and drawn he is. Not right for a hobbit," which seems to indicate that he is looking older because of his ordeal. Also in Mordor Sam observes that his face is "lined and thin." Perhaps in both cases it is due to the strain of the Ring, as it does say "as if" all the years of his life were now revealed in his face, not that they actually were.

Ivriniel · 03-14-2014, 09:10 PM

I've come to conclude that there are two "lines of influence" that the Rings of Power exert over their keepers. Only one has malevolent intent.

One of those lines is that which the Elven Rings exert, which is about the Elves being able to "exist in two worlds at once". Recall Glorfindel confronting the Nine here.

About Frodo, I suspect Gandalf was referring to the influence of the Ring and the Morgal Blade.

But Gandalf's comment about the transparent filled glass seems to imply that, although Frodo was made more transparent at the time at Elrond's, he was not necessarily referring to a wraith/evil outcome. It seems that there was the concurrent 'Elven'/non malevolence implied in Frodo's recovery.

03-11-2014, 04:23 PM	#4
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	It says that Sam sees Frodo (just before he makes the rabbit stew) "as if the chiselling of the shaping years was now revealed in many fine lines that had before been hidden," as if Sam is observing Frodo's 50 years of life as they would really have looked without the Ring, but when he looks again, he says "Too thin and drawn he is. Not right for a hobbit," which seems to indicate that he is looking older because of his ordeal. Also in Mordor Sam observes that his face is "lined and thin." Perhaps in both cases it is due to the strain of the Ring, as it does say "as if" all the years of his life were now revealed in his face, not that they actually were. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

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03-14-2014, 09:10 PM	#5
Ivriniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 430	I've come to conclude that there are two "lines of influence" that the Rings of Power exert over their keepers. Only one has malevolent intent. One of those lines is that which the Elven Rings exert, which is about the Elves being able to "exist in two worlds at once". Recall Glorfindel confronting the Nine here. About Frodo, I suspect Gandalf was referring to the influence of the Ring and the Morgal Blade. But Gandalf's comment about the transparent filled glass seems to imply that, although Frodo was made more transparent at the time at Elrond's, he was not necessarily referring to a wraith/evil outcome. It seems that there was the concurrent 'Elven'/non malevolence implied in Frodo's recovery.