The Inherent Incompatability of Morgoth and Sauron

[Nikkolas]

While we are on the topic of Saruman compared to the Dark Lords though, I was wondering if you guys agreed with my assessment of why Saruman achieved so little. I made this post in defense of Saruman when someone scoffed at me claiming he was a peer of Sauron:

Saruman was a very small and petty man in the end and that is why I sympathize with him more than Sauron or Melkor, who both fell to much greater wickedness than Saruman ever managed. It's kind of a shame he will always be seen as a "Sauron wannabe" when he is a far more fleshed out character than Sauron in terms of depth or development. He's also often made fun of simply because he never achieved much when compared to the Dark Lords he aspired to be. But therein lies the difference between Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion. The Sil is all about the mightiest of the mighty and LOTR is about humility and the underdog. Saruman being a failed tyrant is crucial to the story's tone I think.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nikkolas

Saruman was a very small and petty man in the end and that is why I sympathize with him more than Sauron or Melkor, who both fell to much greater wickedness than Saruman ever managed. It's kind of a shame he will always be seen as a "Sauron wannabe" when he is a far more fleshed out character than Sauron in terms of depth or development. He's also often made fun of simply because he never achieved much when compared to the Dark Lords he aspired to be. But therein lies the difference between Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion. The Sil is all about the mightiest of the mighty and LOTR is about humility and the underdog. Saruman being a failed tyrant is crucial to the story's tone I think.

Saruman's handicap may have had less to do with lesser ability than with his original motives for his fall.

It seems to me that while Morgoth and Sauron each had grand ideas about re-ordering the world to fit his own image of its "right" state, Saruman's turn to evil was in a meaningful way influenced by jealousy of Gandalf. Envy is a rather destructive emotion, in that the actor has a tendency to become blind to danger in the desire to spite his enemy. Saruman was subverted by Sauron perhaps the more easily because he desired Gandaf's failure, and wanted power to bring it about.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Saruman's handicap may have had less to do with lesser ability than with his original motives for his fall.

It seems to me that while Morgoth and Sauron each had grand ideas about re-ordering the world to fit his own image of its "right" state, Saruman's turn to evil was in a meaningful way influenced by jealousy of Gandalf. Envy is a rather destructive emotion, in that the actor has a tendency to become blind to danger in the desire to spite his enemy. Saruman was subverted by Sauron perhaps the more easily because he desired Gandaf's failure, and wanted power to bring it about.

Yes, envy of Gandalf is certainly a major component of Saruman's moral weakness, but another important aspect of Saruman's flawed character is his coveting of the Ring. The Ring warped him just as surely as if he were wearing it. Its possession became all-encompassing to him, even to the point of creating his own rings and risking destruction by not only betraying the Lords of the West, but Sauron as well. Even if Sauron had been victorious at the Morannon and recovered the Ring, Saruman, his treachery revealed to the Nazgul previously, would have found eternal torment in Barad-dur for his traitorous actions.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Yes, envy of Gandalf is certainly a major component of Saruman's moral weakness, but another important aspect of Saruman's flawed character is his coveting of the Ring. The Ring warped him just as surely as if he were wearing it. Its possession became all-encompassing to him, even to the point of creating his own rings and risking destruction by not only betraying the Lords of the West, but Sauron as well. Even if Sauron had been victorious at the Morannon and recovered the Ring, Saruman, his treachery revealed to the Nazgul previously, would have found eternal torment in Barad-dur for his traitorous actions.

Oh, certainly the Ring was a large factor too in Saruman's corruption. But I wonder if his lust for it may have had its roots in the knowledge that Gandalf either knew or suspected its whereabouts. An opportunity to confound Gandalf's plans at any cost, coupled with the power the Ring would give him, could have been icing on the cake.