Sauron's Super Army?

[Zigûr]

"Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants." (Letter 183)
You say Sauron was looked on as a God in Númenor, but Professor Tolkien explicitly tells us in Morgoth's Ring that he wasn't. In Númenor he was, regardless of how powerful he became, still a prisoner and hostage, and only the representative of their new "god" (Morgoth). We have to factor in Sauron's pride. He could never be King or God in Númenor the way he was in Middle-earth, and I think that fact frustrated him to no end. I think ruling from behind the throne was never really good enough for him. We know that in the Third Age the remaining Black Númenórean societies did revere him as a God - after their old king and realm had been destroyed. I think this was the only way for Sauron to accomplish what he truly desired. And as Professor Tolkien points out, he had been partially (but not completely) infected by Morgoth's nihilism - wishing to destroy what he could not openly rule. Sauron was, I believe, in many ways an idealist (his largely all-or-nothing scheme with the Rings of Power, for example, a potential masterstroke which failed to ensnare anyone but Men, leaving him still vulnerable rather than completely in control) and didn't always behave in a completely pragmatic or necessarily even rational manner regarding his plans and ambitions.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

You say Sauron was looked on as a God in Númenor, but Professor Tolkien explicitly tells us in Morgoth's Ring that he wasn't. In Númenor he was, regardless of how powerful he became, still a prisoner and hostage, and only the representative of their new "god" (Morgoth).

I was using the Akallabêth, which states that when a bolt of lightning struck the temple devoted to Sauron's religion:

...Sauron stood there upon the pinnacle and defied the lightning and was unharmed; and in that hour men called him a god and did all that he would.

Originally Posted by Zigûr

We have to factor in Sauron's pride. He could never be King or God in Númenor the way he was in Middle-earth, and I think that fact frustrated him to no end. I think ruling from behind the throne was never really good enough for him.

I wonder though if simply waiting a bit longer, maybe for the death of Pharazôn, might not have actually given Sauron the sceptre. Or coud he not have possibly arranged for Pharazôn to give it to him? After all, Pharazôn had no heir, apparently.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I was using the Akallabêth, which states that when a bolt of lightning struck the temple devoted to Sauron's temple:

That's a fair point and one I hadn't considered. We must remember however that, apart from this moment of hysteria (in the absence of the King) Sauron was generally regarded by most of the population and the administration as the High Priest of Melkor (or "Arûn-Mulkhêr" as I believe the Númenóreans called him) and not a god himself.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I wonder though if simply waiting a bit longer, maybe for the death of Pharazôn, might not have actually given Sauron the sceptre. Or coud he not have possibly arranged for Pharazôn to give it to him? After all, Pharazôn had no heir, apparently.

I suppose I don't find Sauron being legitimately made King of Númenor to seem like a particularly likely scenario, although I don't really have much to base that on besides the fact that he was not a Man or descendant of Elros. I assume from prior contact with the Elves, especially the warning of Gil-Galad, that the Númenóreans knew or at least had some idea of what manner of being Sauron was. Additionally, Ar-Pharazôn wished to rule the world. Might not some of his potential heirs (even if he lacked a direct one) have held similar desires which would obstruct Sauron's potential ascension?

Númenor had become a murderous, barbarous society in which "men took weapons in those days and slew one another for little cause; for they were become quick to anger, and Sauron, or those whom he had bound to himself, went about the land setting man against man, so that the people murmured against the King and the lords, or against any that had aught that they had not; and the men of power took cruel revenge." It seems to me that this was a society where it would not necessarily be easy for Sauron to centralise power in his own hands, having instigated so much unrest.

I think we also have to remember that Sauron did not actually intend for Númenor itself to be destroyed, nor did he expect Eru's intervention. At least, my interpretation is that those elements loyal directly to the King would attack Aman and be destroyed by the Valar, leaving him in control of a remnant so that he could return to Middle-earth and resume his wars against the Elves. I think he must have known that, partially with his help, Númenor had become too powerful for him to control directly, and while there he had abandoned his kingship in Middle-earth (I assume he had left the Nazgûl in charge in his absence). Again, I think to some extent Sauron must simply have lusted for the destruction of a nation and people who had repeatedly thwarted his plans and humiliated him.

[Formendacil]

Sauron certainly neutralised Númenor as an enemy--but only insofar as he preyed upon their own desire for world supremacy. As long as Sauron was still their defeated captive and was pushing them towards a goal they long sought, he was able to get them to do what he wanted. Had he tried to push them back to war in Middle-earth though, it seems likely that the Númenóreans would have become suspicious he was trying to use them as a powerplay--not least because they had little interest in looking east: they'd already found and taken what they wanted there; the things they still wanted lay westward.

It's worth pointing out that we have no idea who Ar-Pharazôn's heir was. Amandil and Elendil were closer kin to him through his grandmother, Inzilbêth, than through their shared descent from Tar-Elendil. Presumably any one of the "King's Men" kings closer to Pharazôn had other descendants.

All things considered too, Sauron was much more interested in getting the Valar to act against Númenor than in destroying his enemies in Middle-earth--after all, he still had the Ring there and Númenor and Valinor were each comparatively greater than all of his Middle-earthbound enemies. I don't think he expected Valinor to ever get involved in Middle-earth again; he seems to have read their reluctance to enter the War of Wrath and their failure to pursue him after he left their custody as a sign they had given up, but I think he wasn't beyond spiting them--and maybe he wanted to use the Númenóreans as a test-case to see how far they could be pushed. No danger to him if they proved angry enough to sail east and wipe the island out.

What he didn't expect was Eru stepping in personally--and note that the consequence was that his body was destroyed and he had to rebuild it before the War of the Last Alliance. Granted, it took him far less time than it did AFTER that war, but it should be considered that the War of the Last Alliance would have gone MUCH differently if Númenor had been wiped out "conventionally" and Sauron been able to return to Middle-earth with body intact--and I think we can assume that this is what he was planning for.

[Mornorngûr]

I think we also have to remember that Sauron did not actually intend for Númenor itself to be destroyed, nor did he expect Eru's intervention. At least, my interpretation is that those elements loyal directly to the King would attack Aman and be destroyed by the Valar, leaving him in control of a remnant so that he could return to Middle-earth and resume his wars against the Elves. I think he must have known that, partially with his help, Númenor had become too powerful for him to control directly, and while there he had abandoned his kingship in Middle-earth (I assume he had left the Nazgûl in charge in his absence). Again, I think to some extent Sauron must simply have lusted for the destruction of a nation and people who had repeatedly thwarted his plans and humiliated him.

Why didn't Sauron just give Ar-Pharazôn a 'Ring of Power'? (one of 'The Nine'), or maybe he could have given out all of 'The Nine' among the 'Kings men'?. This way their lives would have been extended and he could have feigned that because of loyalty to his cause (and to Melkor), that eternal life had been granted. This of course would have been a lie. However by the time that they discovered this, they would have been to far gone and under his control (due to the One Ring) to do anything about it, and Sauron would have accomplished dominion over Númenor.

Thoughts?

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Mornorngûr

Why didn't Sauron just give Ar-Pharazôn a 'Ring of Power'? (one of 'The Nine'), or maybe he could have given out all of 'The Nine' among the 'Kings men'?. This way their lives would have been extended and he could have feigned that because of loyalty to his cause (and to Melkor), that eternal life had been granted. This of course would have been a lie. However by the time that they discovered this, they would have been to far gone and under his control (due to the One Ring) to do anything about it, and Sauron would have accomplished dominion over Númenor.

Apart from the practical reason that the Nine had already been dispensed by that point in time and there were no Great Rings remaining for him to give out, I think that Sauron simply did not want most of the Númenoréans to survive. He wanted, I think, to kill Ar-Pharazôn and destroy the armies and fleets of Númenor to cripple their strength and eliminate the threat they posed to his plans of domination in Middle-earth.

The entire plot, convincing Ar-Pharazôn to attack Aman, seems to be similar to the scheme with the Rings of Power to me. Gandalf observed Sauron's philosophy thus: "he that strikes the first blow, if he strikes it had enough, may need to strike no more." ("The White Rider") Sauron was always developing master plans to eliminate his enemies in a single motion. The forging of the Rings was one such scheme, to bring the Elves under his control instantaneously. This scheme failed. Númenor succeeded, to an extent, but he lost his body and the Faithful survived; by eliminating his power-rivals he granted Gil-Galad a formidable ally. The War of the Ring was a similar scheme - to let the blow fall on all of his enemies simultaneously and destroy them all at once. This was the nature of Sauron's character: impatient and ruthless. The problem with this attitude was that his plans had no contingency, and when they failed they did so disastrously.

I do not believe that ruling Númenor was ever of interest to Sauron. He just wanted to get rid of them, because he hated and feared them. Without them he only had to deal with the Noldor. Temporarily being the power behind the throne was simply the most efficient means of doing this because they could not be defeated by force of arms.

[Mornorngûr]

Apart from the practical reason that the Nine had already been dispensed by that point in time and there were no Great Rings remaining for him to give out, I think that Sauron simply did not want most of the Númenoréans to survive.

I thought that Sauron actually held 'The Nine'? After the Men he gave them to were corrupted, did he not take them back? or did the Nazgul still have them?.

Actually I have just been doing some research and it is clear to me that Sauron actually held them and therefore could re-distribute them if he wished.