Do most fantasy novel nowadays have traceable elements of Tolkienism in them?

[Tidesson]

Try R. Scott Bakker's trilogy, "The Prince of Nothing."

Once you get finished with that storyline, try his follow up novels, "The Aspect-Emperor," which deals with the world of Ëarwa twenty years later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Nothing

You can get a taste here of Ëarwa's history (Bakker's worldbuilding skill) that in my opinion, rivals Tolkien's Middle-Earth. http://princeofnothing.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

R. Scott Bakker's Official Website:

http://www.rscottbakker.com/

Here's a forum for his fantasy work, akin to Tolkien's here: http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/index.php

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Tidesson

...You can get a taste here of Ëarwa's history (Bakker's worldbuilding skill) that in my opinion, rivals Tolkien's Middle-Earth.

Thank you for your personal assessment, Mr. Bakker.

[Lairston]

I think its hard not to have some Tolkienism in the fantasy if you're going to include classic fantasy races like elves and dwarfs ect... But there are fantasy writers who go outside the box and don't include those. For instance Ted Dekker's fantasy series The Circle is not Tolkien and it is quite good. At least I think its good.

[Dunadanman]

I agree with someone earlier in this thread who stated it would be difficult for any post-Tolkien fantasy author to not borrow (consciously or unconsciously) from the Professor. But tales can be built off of earlier tales, if they are done right. It's a fine line. In my opinion, there are 2 aspects to a story: the constructive elements (such as setting, characters, etc) and the motive behind the story (in Tolkien's case, the promotion of honor, redemption and the lesson that good works in small hands can change history). Copycats tend to take some of the constructive elements but fail to offer a legitimate motive for their story. So it comes off hollow. Believe me, I know because I wrote a couple similar novels myself. Upon review years later, I had to admit to myself that while aspects of my writing were good, the storyline was nothing more than a flattering copy. That's why I recently shifted gears and cut right to the chase...if I am going to incorporate Tolkien, then make it obvious. So I published a parody of his works called High as a Hobbit. Some may cringe at such heresy (ha!), but at least it's honest.

[Morthoron]

Must you shill for your product every time you post? It's getting quite annoying.

[Dunadanman]

You are absolutely right, and I apologize for that. Please chalk it up to mis-directed and overblown enthusiasm of a first time writer. It's hard to sit quiet when your piece has hit the streets, but it's no excuse for bending the line of protocol in this fine forum. It will not happen again.

[jallanite]

But can you always spot Tolkien influence?

Many fantasy stories written before The Lord of the Rings or even before The Hobbit might also seem to be influenced by Tolkien if you did not know when they were written.

For example, there is Lord Dunsany’s The King of Elfland's Daughter or William Morris’ A Tale of the House of the Wolfings and All the Kindreds of the Mark which in different ways may seem Tolkienish, but any influence in these books might have inspired Tolkien, not the reverse.

There is Hope Mirrlees’ magnificent Lud-in-the-Mist, which fantasy writer Neil Gaiman calls one of his top ten books. See http://www.goodreads.com/genres/neil-gaiman-top-ten .

And there are influences on Tolkien of various passages in past fantasy stories which on the whole are not very Tolkienish. For example George MacDonald’s Lilith, at the beginning of chapter 39, describes dreams in a house in which the protagonist and his friend take refuge, dreams which are almost identical to the dreams that the hobbits have in the House of Tom Bombadil:

Their night was a troubled one, and they brought a strange report of it into the day. Whether the fear of their sleep came out into their waking, or their waking fear sank with them into their dreams, awake or asleep they were never at rest from it. All night something seemed going on in the house—something silent, something terrible, something they were not to know. Never a sound awoke; the darkness was one with the silence, and the silence was the terror


Once, a frightful wind filled the house, and shook its inside, they said, so that it quivered and trembled like a horse shaking himself; but it was a silent wind that made not even a moan in their chamber, and passed away like a soundless sob.

They fell asleep. But they woke again with a great start. They thought the house was filling with water such as they had been drinking. It came from below, and swelled up until the garret was full of it to the very roof. But it made no more sound than the wind, and when it sank away, they fell asleep dry and warm.

And George MacDonald’s novel Phantastes has an evil sentient Ash much like Tolkien’s Old Man Willow, who is sleepy in the day time but comes fully awake at night. And there are other speaking trees as well in that book.

There are also hundreds of old fantasy tales which are now mostly unread, and mostly justly so, and the same for relatively new fantasy tales.

I point to Nerwen’s note that Moorcock started writing about Elric before The Silmarillion was published. What may seem Tolkienish may indeed just be coincidence or a case of two writers being influenced by some of the same previous writers.

Tolkien, for example, was very influenced by the writings of Rider Haggard, but his atmosphere and style is very different, though again and again the same motifs occur.

As Galadriel55 indicates, there is much fantasy published that is not very Tolkienesque but it is for the reader to seek it out.

[IxnaY AintsaY]

Originally Posted by Tidesson

Try R. Scott Bakker's trilogy, "The Prince of Nothing."

Once you get finished with that storyline, try his follow up novels, "The Aspect-Emperor," which deals with the world of Ëarwa twenty years later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Nothing

You can get a taste here of Ëarwa's history (Bakker's worldbuilding skill) that in my opinion, rivals Tolkien's Middle-Earth. http://princeofnothing.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

R. Scott Bakker's Official Website:

http://www.rscottbakker.com/

Here's a forum for his fantasy work, akin to Tolkien's here: http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/index.php

I'm a huge admirer of Bakker's work in Earwa, beautiful, intricate, and unflawless. Following your timeline link, however, I was reminded again of the similarities between the corruption of Cû’jara-Cinmoi and that of Ar-Pharazon. Both are dark characters who are kings of the most powerful realms of their time. Both apparently humble the enemy of the world, one which has its origins outside of that world. That enemy ultimately seduces both with promises of immortality to destroy themselves and their nations, with enormous consequences to a storyline that occurs thousands of years later.

Just a random thought, not an important one, and in response to a year-old post, no less.

Overall I think Bakker is about as distinct from Tolkien as he could be while still writing fantasy with an elaborate feigned history. I'd say that his work--like some of Moorcock's or Donaldson's--is inspired partly by his reactions against Tolkien though.