The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-10-2013, 09:44 AM   #1
Zigûr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
Again I see a parallel in Galadriel vs. Sauron: Good more easily comprehends evil, than the reverse. Melian and Galadriel gain a fair amount of understanding of their more innately powerful adversaries, while the latter remain relatively blind.
Given how often this is the case, it's interesting that at the highest level the opposite was true, by which I mean the case of Manwë in judgement of Melkor: "For Manwë was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Ilúvatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor's heart and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever." (The Silmarillion p.65-66)
Of course by a later time in the First Age Morgoth's ability to conceal his thoughts from others may have been diminished. However, considering that Manwë was "free from evil" does the insight of characters like Melian convey a reduced freedom from evil with a "know thine enemy" connotation? But I suppose another parallel with Galadriel might be useful; she knew evil but rejected it, and perhaps knowing evil was not always a bad thing when it came to fighting evil, as long as it didn't go too far (as in the case of Saruman). That would seem to fit with Professor Tolkien's recurring theme that evil ultimately contributes to good, that Arda Healed would be greater than Arda Unmarred for having been Marred.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 12:54 PM   #2
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigûr View Post
Given how often this is the case, it's interesting that at the highest level the opposite was true, by which I mean the case of Manwë in judgement of Melkor: "For Manwë was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Ilúvatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor's heart and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever." (The Silmarillion p.65-66)
Maybe Manwë's innocence may be attributed to the simple fact that Morgoth was the primordial evil in Arda, the "test case", as it were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigûr View Post
However, considering that Manwë was "free from evil" does the insight of characters like Melian convey a reduced freedom from evil with a "know thine enemy" connotation? But I suppose another parallel with Galadriel might be useful; she knew evil but rejected it, and perhaps knowing evil was not always a bad thing when it came to fighting evil, as long as it didn't go too far (as in the case of Saruman).
One wonders if Melian had ever been subjected to any sort of temptation along the lines of Galadriel's desire of the Ring. Being truly "embodied" and thus chained to the earth as Morgoth, Sauron, and later, the Istari, I wouldn't think she would have been immune from evil thoughts; merely she apparently possessed enough wisdom and will to spurn them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigûr View Post
That would seem to fit with Professor Tolkien's recurring theme that evil ultimately contributes to good, that Arda Healed would be greater than Arda Unmarred for having been Marred.
That seems an echo of Frodo's words to Sam just before Frodo's departure from the Grey Havens.

Quote:
....you will read things out of the Red Book, and keep alive the memory of the age that is gone, so that people will remember the Great Danger, and so love their beloved land all the more.
Those who have personally experienced troubles have more appreciation for what they have than those who have not. On that score, the Exiled Noldor should have been happier and more content in Aman after their return than the Vanyar, who did not endure the pains and turmoils of Middle-earth.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:05 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.