Melian among the maia

[Saurondil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

For me anything to do with Thingol has a negative connotation. And yes I know, I just couldn't resist the temptation to spread some Thingol hate. I need to stop before I become old and bitter.


I'm afraid I don't quite follow you here - can you explain?

## This happens a lot LOL

The point is, that with the three later unions, we learn that important goods came of them....but I've just realised that I mistakenly thought Dior's parents were not Beren & Luthien, whereas they definitely were. Sorry about that

The speculation may have something to be said for it even so, but would be irrelevant to the pattern of unions. Sorry about the confusion. I hope that clears things up.

As for Thingol, he is definitely one of my favourite characters - but so are Maedhros & Maeglin (& Feanor).

Originally Posted by Inziladun

But why? Some sort of "enhancement" or ennoblement for Elwë, to prepare him for being the spouse of a divine being? He is obviously changed when next seen by his followers.

## Ennoblement, or elevation or improvement, does seem to be a theme in the history of Arda: the Elves are "ennobled" by being brought to Valinor, the Numenoreans are "ennobled" by their friendship with the Elves, the Men of Middle Earth are "ennobled" by contact with the Numenoreans. And there is more than a hint of it in TLOTR. And it works the other way too - Morgoth ruins everything & everyone he comes in contact with - himself most of all. If the Numenoreans had been patient (as the messengers of the Valar advised), they might have "ennobled" all those enslaved to Sauron, and he might have fallen for ever much sooner, w/o the destruction of Numenor and a lot of other bad stuff.

FWIW, ennoblement of this sort would fit nicely with the Catholic notion that grace perfects, and does not destroy, nature (& Tolkien was a Catholic) - the change in Thingol would be a good illustration of the idea. If Thingol had remained as he was, something might have happened to him analogous to what the Numenoreans would have suffered, had they lived among the Valar:

"For it is not the land of Manwë that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land; and there you would but wither and grow weary the sooner, as moths in a light too strong and steadfast.'"

Which is what happened to the Ringwraiths - except that they "crackled, withered, and went out" when the Barad-dur fell. So much for the promises of Sauron in the Akallabeth; in a lesser way, the gifts given to the Numenoreans "withered", slowly, when they rejected the Valar & the Elves. But by being with Melian, Thingol was "elevated" from being an Elf (albeit one who had seen the Trees & the Valar), to being a "Mairinised" Elf. Maybe that long time with her alone was the preparation he needed for the rest of his life with her.

If Sauron or Morgoth had come in full force against Doriath, I doubt Melian could have held them off indefinitely - I think she is more like Yavanna among the Valar than like Tulkas. Though she seems even more like Varda, overall: not a warlike Maia, not "technological" like Aule (& the Maiar Sauron & Saruman, who were of his "people"), but both creative & regal. IIRC, there is a close relation between the native endowments & character of members of the Ainur OTOH, and their "range of effective action" OTO. So perhaps her gifts gave her great power in certain respects - but not in others.