Saruman's ring

[Ardent]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

...One thing I really wish Tolkien had done at the end of Lord of the Rings was have someone pick up Saruman's Ring and pocket it - like the moment in Doctor Who when we see a hand creep in and take The Master's ring from his pyre...

I'd forgotten that ring, but remember thinking how the pocket watches of the Doctor and the Master, along with the horcruxes in Harry Potter, do much the same as the Rings in preserving the personality.

With rgards to the idea that Saruman was exploring the properties of light, I wonder if he learned something of the art of Radagast, who Gandalf describes as "a master of shapes and changes of hue". Certainly he regarded Radagast as a "fool", and we know he plied Treebeard for information. As Treebeard says:

"I told him many things that he would never have found out by himself; but he never repaid me in like kind."

He also goes on to say how Saruman's Orcs can endure the Sun, making them more like wicked men, which suggests another way in which the wizard had mastered light.

[Lalwendë]

With regard to Tom and dragons and so forth being Maiar, as Father Jack says, that would be an ecumenical matter....and probably suited for a new discussion.

Originally Posted by Ardent

I'd forgotten that ring, but remember thinking how the pocket watches of the Doctor and the Master, along with the horcruxes in Harry Potter, do much the same as the Rings in preserving the personality.

I think it's a common theme in literature (and by extension, TV and film) for a character to invest part of themselves into an object - it's something which may even extend into the pre-literary past. The Smiths (as in Wayland, not Morrissey) were seen as magicians with their ability to turn rocks into swords, so it's not difficult to see where the trope comes from. It's one I really like.

With rgards to the idea that Saruman was exploring the properties of light, I wonder if he learned something of the art of Radagast, who Gandalf describes as "a master of shapes and changes of hue". Certainly he regarded Radagast as a "fool", and we know he plied Treebeard for information. As Treebeard says:

"I told him many things that he would never have found out by himself; but he never repaid me in like kind."

He also goes on to say how Saruman's Orcs can endure the Sun, making them more like wicked men, which suggests another way in which the wizard had mastered light.[/QUOTE]

Going to have a look at this one in the book as it's passed my notice...cheers!