Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[the phantom]

Yeah, Pom- the chain thing would force the choice. I suppose Elendil will logically send Amandil a dream tonight of his previous recipient to start things off, then it'll be up to him whether or not to continue from the opposite end of the chain the next night- assuming that the opposite end has not already been found guilty, that is. Given that circumstance I suppose Amandil's dream target (last night's recipient) would request night protection and be granted a second dream to restart the innocent chain.

In rereading the rules on the Admin page I noticed this under Elendil-

May use gift on Night1.

Which I suppose means that it would be within his power not to use his gift Night 1. Do you think there's much of a chance that Elendil passed up his dream opportunity out of fear that he would reveal a Gifted to a Baddie on Night 1? I would understand some amount of hesitation given that Elendil had no Day activity to base suspicions off of, and given the number of Gifteds and their various useful powers he may have decided it would be wiser not to shoot the village in the foot with a potentially disastrous Night 1 selection.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

About Isildur's power to save a lynchee, what would happen if no-one in the village voted on Day One? Is this against the rules?

From the village perspective, it would be great to save Isildur's power, not lynch a gifted, and then have (hopefully) info to go on on Day Two.

Or is that completely ridiculous? Sorry, I'm cooking supper while thinking about this so it's probably not coherent. Also, my chili will probably turn out sub-standard due to lack of focus.

[Morsul the Dark]

King's Cronies
Manwe
Boro
Nerwen

I think I read these two pages 4 times before I figured out what was going on so simple yet I couldn't digest it.

On a personal note number one priority for me not having tunnel vision this time around. It's gotten me into trouble in the past.

See phantom's dream plan seems solid and good for the villiage but revealing Isildur as well? That's just a bad idea I think.

I will be back in a bit gym and groceries...


Edit: bolded list
I'll be annoyingly present Friday, day off.

[Inziladun]

My (random?) list notwithstanding, at the moment Steve is probably my top lynch pick, mainly because I think not voting plays to the baddies more often than not.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

My (random?) list notwithstanding, at the moment Steve is probably my top lynch pick, mainly because I think not voting plays to the baddies more often than not.

What? I never suggested not voting.

edit: Oh, wait, you mean that you feel like you need to vote someone.

[Boromir88]

Eomer was the first one who suggested to not lynch anyone today, and a generally bad feeling from someone who has been looking fairly distant throughout the day. I mean there's been a nice prompting of talk for Day 1, and Eomer's stayed back with a sentence here and sentence there about the topics. And the vote for sally, looks safe and easy. Yes sally has only popped in with an "I'm here post," but that seems like a typical sally, who I expect will be back to add more before the day's end.

Pom's thoughts on Inzil are basically the same as mine. The positive is he's been involved with a fairly clear stance (unlike Eomer). Yet, he's been the only one reading that just has not convinced me he likes the Amandil revealing plan. Yes, many have been prodding questions and thinking of possible scenarios to flesh out the plan in full, but I've got this impression Inzil is grudgingly going along with it.

Manwe's been kind of similar to Eomer in a few critical questions here and there about the phantom's brainstorming. Yet I haven't gotten a good idea where he stands on it/how he feels about all of it.

---

The who I won't vote for today...Shasta and the phantom should be pretty self-explanatory.

With Pom, I've been quite comfortable bouncing all the ideas back and fourth with her. I suppose I should be paranoid that a wolf-Pom could still have enough guile to make me feel comfortable, but not going to worry and be paranoid about that possiblity today.

Edit: crossed with the phantom

[satansaloser2005]

Eomer, your three theoretical guilty parties are all young lads and yet, instead of voting for one of them, you attempt to sink your noose into the neck of a wee lass whose only apparent crime is saying hello? You hooligan. A pox on you and possibly your king.

I was going to defy Phantom's plan just to be difficult, but I'm in rather high spirits today, so I'll play nice. As always, however, I must constantly remind myself that a clever Phantom isn't necessary a Phantom who has my best interests at heart. (Note that this is just as much the case outside of Werewolf. He's really quite a horrible man. )

Assuming I heard anything last Night, which I absolutely didn't, I may have reason to point a finger at Dun, Steve, and my sweet prince Boro. Not my finger, necessarily, but a finger.

Meanwhile, annoyance at typical phananigans aside, I won't have any part in a lynch that involves Phantom, Brinn, Shasta (obviously), Pom, or myself (also obviously).

Finishing dinner and then back with more specific thoughts.

EDIT: x'd since Eomer's vote, which means I have a bit of catching up to do

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I think I'm going to go ahead and vote -

++Eonwe

- because some of his posts earlier, after the Amandil-plan was pretty much already dealt with, he seemed to continue the discussion a bit over-much. Shaky thread, I know, but it reminded me a bit of a wolf looking for something to say to seem helpful.

[Loslote]

Of the list I posted earlier, Eonwe topped the list because I actually did (and still do) feel a tiny bit off about him. Nothing anywhere near suspicion, just Day 1 guy feeling. Pomegranate made it on because I have always liked...her?...name. Zil was complete hat-draw.


All this goes to say, if I had to vote now, I'd go for Eonwe. I just feel like your posts are a bit too...careful.

EDIT: xed with Zil. Um. Oh. Right. Hi there.

[the phantom]

Okay, so... I'd better start forming suspicions for voting, right? I'm going to blame it on not playing for so long, but I've seriously been forgetting to read with any sense of guilt/innocence in mind- as if we've just been having a pregame strategy discussion or something. *sigh* Time to reread.... Back soon with thoughts....

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My list of three is: Manwe, Inzil and Morsul.

But I am going to vote for Sally. That 'just checking in' post rubs me the wrong way. Though I would be happy to lynch anyone but Shasta, I suppose.

++SALLY

[Pomegranate]

So, what we have here.

Shasta is obviously off my radar at the moment.

I don't want to vote for the phantom - partially because this is a very useful system and I can't see how it would work pro-KM and partially because I don't like voting amusing/interesting/loud players on the first Day.

Everyone else... yeah.

It seems to me there are a couple of people who have in general only been slightly confused: Brin, to a degree Morsul. Convincing enough in their innocent baffledness so I don't want to vote for them now.

Boro: I'm not any better in this than usual, but he brings up and elaborates good points and thus I'm reluctant to look at him today. The only confusing thing is his big opposition against the pretty harmless lists.

Sally: hasn't been around enough for me to have anything to say about her.

Eonwe: my gut-feeling of him is not bad, if not good. Some good analysis on the reveals and chains and such. Nothing to make him lean to the negative side too much.

Eomer: Brings up the 'if we'd not lynch anyone', which is always a bit creepy. Apart from that doesn't really do much- tries to find loopholes in phantom's plan (but don't we all?). I think he's leaning towards negative in my chart, but not by much.

Lottie: Can't say much. Neutral so far.

Manwe: Brings up a couple of points, but forgets the ranger so they are a bit irrelevant. Would a baddie forget the ranger? Or act as if he had? Neutral so far.

I'd say the ones I feel worst about are Inzil and Nerwen.

Nerwen comments smart points but mainly points out other people's mistakes, miscalculations or rules. Makes her seem sharp without any comment on the actual gaming and decisionmaking.

Inzil seems to me slightly more confused than normal, as well as more - explanatory. When we were giving counterarguments to her loophole-hunt, she was quick to make sure we knew she wasn't actually against it, just

Originally Posted by Inziladun

All right. I'm just looking for holes in this deal, before everyone just jumps in.

and

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, I didn't say the possibility of a fake reveal should prevent the plan, it was just a thought I had.

Which is true, but that's what we were all doing - throwing ideas forth and back. No need to explain your actions there.

I'll say the normal day 1 "These are obviously no serious suspicions, we don't have enough material etc etc" and vote for ++Inzil. The couple of quotes and gut feeling are enough to make me feel uncomfortable at this time of Day 1, and I cannot stay for longer.

[the phantom]

Well, it doesn't help that I'm not familiar with everyone. It takes time to get a feel for new folks. Anyone that gets a "free pass" means I'd probably vote to save them (not just that I wouldn't vote for them). Plus there are a lot of distractions here- sorry if some of this is incoherent...

Sally & Morsul- I'd really like to see more from them. I feel like one good reactionary post would let me put them as free pass or vote-worthy.

Eomer- He rubbed me the right way with his comment about not voting. Not the suggestion itself, but the way he said it. He gets a free pass.

Inzil- I'm not super comfortable with #22- something to do with the way he speaks of distrusting Amandil. But in two other posts I have him marked as sounding rather innocent. Meh... Probably not voting for him...

Steve- I don't exactly like his Amandil comments here. The comment about revealing because an early death would be great just feels slightly off, because frankly I don't think there's any possibility of an early death unless Elendil is lynched today, as Amandil will have protection through the night and his death would hand the village another weapon and ensure Elendil's survival.... So when the KMs don't take their free shot at Amandil Night 3 people can suddenly act surprised by the choice despite the fact that it's clearly the right call. But his summary post of the options was quite clear and accurate and I don't exactly want to off him yet. *sigh*

Boro- I see a couple little ploys he has working. It's too early to say if he's legit at this point, but the effort is there and I like the thought. Free pass.

Shasta- Not lynching him. Obviously. Free pass.

Brin- Hasn't played in a while, so automatically has a pass from me until tomorrow. Free pass.

I'm coming away with not much of an impression of Nerwen, Lottie, Manwe, and PomPom. I'd almost lean towards voting one of them for the sake of convenience. (I'm perfectly aware that's not at all fair.)

Seriously- I need to go someplace quieter to do this. *starts skimming again*

[Morsul the Dark]

shasta dreamed phantom so Brinn has to be erendil

x'ed Phantom

[the phantom]

*chuckles*

I was going to let Inzil do the reveal had he survived the night. Poor chap knew pretty well since Shasta died, but I wanted him to keep it quiet. What's a game without a good mystery?

[the phantom]

Yeah, Shasta actually dreamed Boro, but I managed to say just enough to get him to take the big risk and declare me as his dream instead, and I picked it up and ran with it, pretending that I had been the one to dream Brin rather than Boro.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by the phantom

*chuckles*

I was going to let Inzil do the reveal had he survived the night. Poor chap knew pretty well since Shasta died, but I wanted him to keep it quiet. What's a game without a good mystery?

You took boro's dream and ran as if it was yours. I bow to you.

if I fall asleep this moment I have 5 hours of sleep before work... but who can sleep at such a time as this?

[Galadriel55]

The crowd was gathered around the place where they found the dying man that morning. Accusations flew high, and chaos was among the people. One knew not what to do or how to proceed. Among the confusion stood an aged man, proud and silent. His eyes were thoughtful and his beard almost white. So wise the men deemed him to be that the people begged him, all as one, to give them counsel.

“Counsel you shall have from me,” he said, “and more”. All were now looking intently at him, even the youngsters, surveying his face. The more they looked the more wisdom the old man seemed to attain. “You have heard your neighbours speak among themselves,” the man began, and the people nodded their agreement. “You know what a true Faithful would say.” More nods from the people. “I know what a true Faithful would say.” Shouts of “Aye!” are heard. “Yet there are three among us who cannot possibly say it, for they are not of the Faithful. Therefore I say to you: think! Which people do not speak like the Faithful should? Which ones sound like frauds?” His eyes went around the circle of men and stopped on one face. The others followed his gaze.

“What say you to that?” someone asked the man.

“I say that there is no taint on me!” he replied with heat, and with a trace of fear. Men around him began to shout. He protested. He reasoned with them. He replied to one of them, but for each answer he gave ten new accusations were thrown at him. Finally, the old man said,

“Are you a King’s Man in disguise?”

“I am not!”

“But do you not think that with all the evidence these good people have gathered you cannot not be a King’s Man?”

“...I think... Therefore I am – according to you! To you and all the rest of you! What happened to my brothers? My brothers, who but a day ago would have risked their life for mine! And now I am a King’s Man!” His anger and resentment was beyond words. With a desperate gleam in his eyes, he raised his fists and looked about like an animal trapped in a cage. Someone laughed.

A stone whizzed through the air and hit him on the head. Another followed. The man hid his head under his arms. More stones flew. In a matter of ten minutes, it was done. And nothing happened. The villagers perceived now with horror that they have indeed killed one of their own, an innocent ordinary man. The old man closed his eyes.

ALIVE:

Morsul
Nerwen
Inzil
Lottie
Shasta
Manwe
PomPom
The Phantom
sally
Boro
Steve
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1


Night people, do your job. KMs, PM me your kill. Elendil, Anarion - names.

[Galadriel55]

The night was still and silent. Then, a door opened. The glow of a candle illuminated the street. The candle moved steadily along the street, to the town square. The square was surrounded by buildings and had a well in the middle. All the ways met there, people once said – which was true enough about the village.

The well creaked and groaned as a bucket of water was pulled up. The man with the candle unhooked it from the rope and stood it on the ground. Hearing footsteps behind him, he turned around to face the three approaching men. He laughed quietly. It had no mirth to it.

“What would such a noble man be doing outside at this hour?” one of the King’s Men asked sweetly.

“No less and no more than getting a drink of water, good sirs,” the man replied, with a hint of mockery in his voice.

“A drink of water? What a small thing to pay for with your life, lordling,” the second man said.

“At the least my life will be worth more than all of yours put together!” the man replied steadfastly.

“Your life? Life, say you? Life? Bah! It has no value. Of cheap things it is the cheapest,” the third King’s Man laughed. “Life! What is life? A chicken has life too, and yet you will not hesitate to eat it!” He laughed again. “Two men have lost their lives by our hands. Now it will be three. And there will be more – all of this beggarly brood, and more – all of the Elendili! What is their life but a thing bound to be lost?”

“You are a fool, if you speak so,” the lone man replied majestically. “You do not know how dear life is. You will not know – not until you lose it yourselves. The only reason my life is worth naught to you,” he continued, “is because by taking it you save your own. You are nothing but cowards! Craven!”

“If you think this will aid you, you are mistaken, and you will pay dearly for your mistake.” The King’s Men smiled as they advanced. The man stood silent and proud, as though he was not, weaponless and outnumbered, facing the last minutes of his life, but as though he was a king in the head of an army leading his men to victory.

They struggled with each other for a long time. But the man was one, when the King’s Men were three. Eventually they held him fast between them, and he, exhausted, could not escape. Two of the men gripped his arms and shoulders, so that he could not move, and the third forced his head into the bucket of water that the man himself raised from the well.

“Drink, man, drink!” the King’s Men taunted. “We would not be indebted to you!”

And he drank. He breathed in deeply. Once, twice. His body went limp. A pale mist rose over his body and floated slowly to the West, where the last stars still showed against the pale of dawn. The King’s Men stared at his body, unbelieving. How could a man who valued life so much part with it so easily? The stood for a few more minutes, and then walked away, still pondering, leaving the body untouched. When the villagers woke up, they found it lying there, with the face still in the water.

ALIVE:

Morsul
Nerwen
Inzil
Lottie
Shasta
Manwe
PomPom
The Phantom
sally
Steve
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1
Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2


Night people - stop your nightly duties! Day people - begin your daily tasks!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2

That is not permitted.

[the phantom]

Well crap. I suppose that means that stunt he was pulling in #20 was legit, then? I was hoping that he was an Ordo doing a distraction, or perhaps a Baddie laying something false, but I feared he was totally on the level with his hinting, and obviously the baddies agreed....

*sigh*

Was he the dream chain, Shasta?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well crap. I suppose that means that stunt he was pulling in #20 was legit, then? I was hoping that he was an Ordo doing a distraction, or perhaps a Baddie laying something false, but I feared he was totally on the level with his hinting, and obviously the baddies agreed....

I read that post a dozen times just now, and I can't make heads or tails out of any hints in there. I might just be bad at hints, though. If it's something that'll help understand where we're at and what's going on, would you mind explaining it a bit for me?

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I read that post a dozen times just now, and I can't make heads or tails out of any hints in there. I might just be bad at hints, though. If it's something that'll help understand where we're at and what's going on, would you mind explaining it a bit for me?

I was about to post this.

Are we trying to say Brinn is evil? Honestly that's the only thing that jumps out but that's part of an example. also well I supposed Boro could be the dreamer And a gifted but what are the chances?

but even if that was the case he voted Lottie...

EDIT X'ed with Phantom

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Which I suppose means that it would be within his power not to use his gift Night 1. Do you think there's much of a chance that Elendil passed up his dream opportunity out of fear that he would reveal a Gifted to a Baddie on Night 1? I would understand some amount of hesitation given that Elendil had no Day activity to base suspicions off of, and given the number of Gifteds and their various useful powers he may have decided it would be wiser not to shoot the village in the foot with a potentially disastrous Night 1 selection.

If we go with this, that's why it's vital to start with a revealed Amandil. If Elendil doesn't start from a known innocent, that runs the risk of him choosing a KM as a dream recipient. If a KM is a recipient, a bold one with a pack confident they can get rid of Elendil within 1 night or 2, could actually bluntly reveal "I was a recipient and ____ was the dream, is innocent."

This could be disastrous because Elendil wouldn't be able to refute the recipient's reveal. If the KM just tells the truth about the dream being innocent, that person can't refute "That's right I am innocent." KMs whack Elendil first, then the dreamed innocent the KM received next. And the KM recipient has the added defense "they're trying to get Elendil first, not go after the target or recipient" to stay alive longer. By the time everyone realizes the recipient was a KM it might be too late to correct it, all because the KM correctly admits to being the dream-recipient and then tells the truth about the target.

[Mänwe]

More likely that Elendil picks an ordo the first night than it is for any King's Men to correctly kill Elendil in the first night.

But yes, Amandil to reveal himself- with the hope the Ranger is watching to save him in the night.

As for Isuldur's power, I would say not to reveal himself- if we already have Amandil making himself known we're giving away two roles! You are wanting a very transparent game aren't you tp?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Also- did anyone give any thoughts on my idea for Isildur to just save whoever gets lynched today given the simple odds at this point in the village?

It's a gamble. I get that the odds favor an innocent being saved, but that's a waste of Isildur's gift. Might as well do what Eomer suggested and not vote, or deliberately tie, which will result in no death.

However, I'm always reluctant to avoid voting, even with slim suspicions. Votes are the only weapon for the village.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Finally- are we ready for Amandil to step up?

Is Amandil ready to step up?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Currently Elendil has one dream and sent it to one person. I would hope Elendil could rely on the information, but there's no way for Elendil to know this for sure. From what I understand, Elendil can double-check and send the same name to a different person, but that's wasting dream choices. And further, there would be no way for Elendil to know which person was telling the truth if he sent 2 people the same name and they relayed conflicting info.

I don't see what you mean by saying "I would hope Elendil could rely on the information, but there's no way for Elendil to know this for sure." Elendil gets his dream result from the Moddess, and shares them with the person of their choice, right? I feel like I'm missing something elementary. I have caffeine in front of me now though, so that's a help.

And what happens to this plan if Amandil dies? He cannot be protected consecutive Nights.

Originally Posted by Mänwe

As for Isuldur's power, I would say not to reveal himself- if we already have Amandil making himself known we're giving away two roles! You are wanting a very transparent game aren't you tp?

Known innocents are always a headache for baddies, but I do share some reluctance in having two Gifteds out so early in the game. Then again, there is Anarion. That's a lot on his shoulders, though.

[Pomegranate]

I'd also feel bad not voting - votes tend to be the main thing to be read and interpreted, and somehow only relying on seer powers would make me feel like I'm cheating

[Eönwë]

So, it looks like there's been more useful discussion that usual for a Day 1. And because of this, I'm inclined to believe that the phantom is innocent. It seems unlikely that a KM would suggest such ideas, but then, it is tp we're talking about.

As for the actual discussion points, I think we've already agreed that Amandil revealing himself would be a good idea. Of course, it's completely his choice, but it's definitely better for him to die when we still have gifteds.

As for the different ideas for dream revelations, it seems to me that the three options (that have been thought of so far) have their drawbacks. In the non-cooperative natural state, nothing significant happens unless someone reveals a KM, though this could be abused at a later stage by a desperate KM to buy an extra day. It also means that we could get unreliable claims of innocence when someone is on the verge of being lynched, which could be quite chaotic.

In phantom's 'three evils' suggestion, there's the possibility that Elendil could take the identities to his grave, as with the usual Seer, because in this scenario, he effectively acts as the normal Seer.

In the 'open chain' suggestion, where all the dreams are public, there's the problem that the chain can be permanently broken and gifteds can be exposed.

So I'm not sure what I think is best yet.

edit: *Waves at Shastamandil*

[Loslote]

Hi, everyone! Sorry I'm late. I got held up by a vicious pack of squirrels - I swear, I've never seen them this mad before - and I had to sneak around the back way just to get here. So, what's going on?

Oh.

Right.

That whole 'murder' thing. Bit of a downer, that. And I was so looking forward to a relaxing weekend! I suppose it's not a total waste, though - we've just got to take care of those nasty King's Men quickly, is all. What are we waiting for?

[/IC]

So. Not bad for a Day 1. Amandil is out already, which narrows our choice for lynchings - if we even decide to lynch anyone at all. I think this is shaping up quite well. I'll be online...basically from here on out.

EDIT: xed with a lot of people. Also, lynchings tonight. Got it. ^.^

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Manwe

You are wanting a very transparent game aren't you tp?

Heh- just willing to float any idea to see if it'll give an edge.

And to Boro- yes, exactly, that's what I mean about Elendil electing not to have a Night 1 dream. Strategically he may have thought it better to play it safe and wait for Amandil to show up etc. I think really it's down to personality.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Elendil gets his dream result from the Moddess, and shares them with the person of their choice, right?

Nope. Elendil doesn't see any results. He chooses the dreamer and the dream and then it's out of his hands. He gets nothing. It's a very interesting role.

Originally Posted by Eomer

About Isildur's power to save a lynchee, what would happen if no-one in the village voted on Day One? Is this against the rules?

Hmmmm.... I'll have to think about that when I'm less distracted....

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nope. Elendil doesn't see any results. He chooses the dreamer and the dream and then it's out of his hands. He gets nothing. It's a very interesting role.

The missing link. I was stuck on this from the Admin Thread:

Every Night [Elendil] reveals the role of one other player to a third player.

By "reveals the role", I was reading that Elendil himself would know what he revealed. All righty then.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I had such plans for this role, too - I was going to be all quasi-Seerish and get murdered. Sigh.

Oh well. Hi, I'm your friendly neighborhood Amandil.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I had such plans for this role, too - I was going to be all quasi-Seerish and get murdered.

Not if I have anything to say about it. I need my darling psychic. *nuzzles you*

I'm here, kiddos. I'll be home in two hours or so and can actually manage more than just snark, but I am certainly around and reading.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And to Boro- yes, exactly, that's what I mean about Elendil electing not to have a Night 1 dream. Strategically he may have thought it better to play it safe and wait for Amandil to show up etc. I think really it's down to personality.

True, but if there was a Night 1 recipient it would be easy enough for Elendil to check if Amandil reveals today. Send the Night 1 recipient to Amandil, and if KM then the possible damage would be minimized. If not, then Elendil knows he can trust the dream sent to the Night 1 recipient.

Edit: crossed with Shasta...well then

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Regarding Isildur... eh. I'm kind of on Inzil's side in that I'm also reluctant to have two Gifted revealed this early, and I also feel like we should still lynch someone today. But then I'm well known to be bloodthirsty.

[the phantom]

Shasta- you lucky dog! When looking over the roles I can tell you Amandil is the one that jumped out at me- "Gah! I should've looked this over sooner and begged the Moddess for that role! I could reveal immediately and push people around!"

But the task of pushing people around instead falls to you. So... any orders?

I assume you're nixing Eomer's idea for a no-vote after that last post.

[Brinniel]

Well, toDay seems a bit busier than most Day Ones I recall. At least I wasn't expecting to process so much info right away. But hey, substance is always a good thing. My brain's just feeling slightly overwhelmed...I don't know whether to attribute that to my headache or lack of WWing over the years. Maybe both.

Originally Posted by phantom

Do you see any drawbacks to everyone randomly listing 3 "guilty" names each day thus providing Elendil a clear indication on whether his dream recipient found his dream target to be guilty?

This could work as long as these lists are truly regarded by everyone else as random. Because the only drawback I can see is that if other people start using these lists to judge guilt or innocence, that could lead to a big mess. Innocents have a difficult enough time guessing one guilty player early on so it's unlikely that they'll be able to give a strong reasoning to why they think three players are evil. So voting against someone simply because of their list could lead to a lot of innocent lynches. And later on, we certainly can't use a known wolf's lists to identify innocents.

As for not voting, as difficult as it may be to identify the baddies on Day 1, I'm not sure not voting anyone would be a good idea. For one thing, if anyone ends up missing the deadline toMorrow to vote, they would be modfired.

Also, was anything mentioned regarding retractable votes? It would be good to know considering retractable votes can greatly impact the outcome of a lynch.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

This could work as long as these lists are truly regarded by everyone else as random.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this. I think it's pretty neutral in terms of the rest of the gameplay if they are regarded as actually random, since it affects everyone the same way.

[Loslote]

Also, if we're ever going to use those lists, toDay would be the Day. After all, we know (almost for sure) that someone got a dream, and that Elendil didn't know who Amandil was. So...

Random People Who, If I Had Dreamed Them, Would Be Guilty - Or At Least Not Innocent
Eonwe
Pomegranate
Zil

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Do you think there's much of a chance that Elendil passed up his dream opportunity out of fear that he would reveal a Gifted to a Baddie on Night 1?

This is an interesting idea to entertain, but we can't really do much about it, and it won't affect us until some sort of reveal.