Taters to Taters

[Nogrod]

We know Gollum was disgusted with pure things (and cooked food) but seemed to go fine with many things we'd consider rank, smelly, odorous, or stinky.

But there seemed to be one place on that rank-side that was too much even for him. Need we say more?

++ The Dead Marshes

[Boromir88]

Down near the final stretch, Gwath is now even with the phantom!

Tally

the phantom - 3 (Honest, Insane, Violent)
Gwath- 3 (Neglected, Charming, Rank)
Nogrod - 2 (Extraordinary, Peaceful)
Gwath - 2 (Neglected, Charming)
Menel - 2 (Cuddly, Ridiculous)
Kitanna - 1 (Deadly)
Lhuna - 1 (Weary)
sally - 1 (Chewy)
Lottie- 1 (Melodramatic)

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ROUND 15

Wilwa you are to judge which of these is most "dangerous"...I think a sensible argument can be made for every one of these...

Elendil
palantiri
Barad-dur
Sauron
Minas Morgul
Misty Mountains
Caranthir
House of Ransom
The Barrow-wight
Silmarils
Beruthiel

----

ROUND 16

Green tater: Attractive (alluring, engaging, good-looking)
Judge: G55

[Nogrod]

Uhh... what a round!

I'm afraid we're going to need the other descriptions a lot this time around...

aka. dangerous (threatening, hazardous, fortified).

[the phantom]

What a round indeed! These take some sorting. I don't have much time, but in my quick glance-over some clear contenders emerge...

Sauron trumps his own places of course-
Barad-Dur
Minas Morgul

I'm confident Sauron trumps the characters-
Elendil
Caranthir
The Barrow-Wight
Beruthiel

For remaining places Misty Mts trumps House of Ransom.

For objects Silmarils trumps palantiri.

So, we are left with the final contenders...
Sauron
Misty Mts
Silmarils

(Someone has caught up, eh? Better start playing the winner-cards then- I've tossed enough aside where I have good ones left mostly.)

[Nogrod]

Dangerous (threatening, hazardous, fortified)


Let's not be too hasty Mr. phantom... These all are "dangerous" in different ways - and we can and should argue which of them might be seen as more dangerous than some other. But in this kind of situation I think the other descriptions aid one pretty much and make the game more interesting.

So let me offer another quite hasty analysis...

Originally Posted by the phantom

Sauron trumps his own places of course-
Barad-Dur
Minas Morgul

They are all dangerous, threatening and hazardous - but both Barad Dûr and Minas Morgul are far better matches for "fortified" than Sauron (Sauron may go into a fortification or build one around him, but he is not himself fortified in a way a place is!). So actually one should argue that Barad Dûr and Minas Morgul both trump Sauron.

I'm confident Sauron trumps the characters-
Elendil
Caranthir
The Barrow-Wight
Beruthiel

He might or he might not. But as he has lost to both Barad Dûr and Minas Morgul already that doesn't actually matter any more...

For remaining places Misty Mts trumps House of Ransom.

Here I would just plain disagree. With the House of Ransom all the qualities are concentrated in one place and have a devastating effect to one of the greatest struggles of the whole legendarium whereas Misty Mountains are great in many respects but too wide - and thus diluted - to make a similarly strong impression. I mean that fex. it is not that The Misty Mountains are fortified as such - and there were times and places where the Misty Mts. were not dangerous or hazardous... What I mean is that they are too grand both in time and space to really make it - whereas the House of Ransom is a special place that is exactly fitted into the fates of Túrin, Beleg & co. (the concept "House of Ransom" doesn't describe the hill as such through the ages but the pivotal point of these remarkable adventures - being the concept of danger and hazard itself)

For objects Silmarils trumps palantiri.

This I might accept indeed, even if I'm not sure you can thusly discard the palantiri... But just as a comparison you sure have something that touches my nerve as well.


So as all of these are dangerous, threatening and hazardous, I would throw away the persons first (they are not fortified in the same sense) and would then compare the places & objects (which sure were most of the time inside fortifications). I mean that seems to be the only way to prooduce a fair difference between cast A choices and cast B choices...

[Gwathagor]

Black Numenorean Cat Lady. That's all I'm going to say.

[Meneltarmacil]

I'm pretty sure Sauron and the Silmarils are more dangerous than the Misty Mountains.

Between Sauron and the Silmarils, though, I'd go with Sauron. The Silmarils will only harm you if you're evil, at least if I remember correctly. Sauron, on the other hand, tends to be just as dangerous an ally as he is an enemy.

I think Sauron is the clear choice here.

[the phantom]

Nog- Well sure if we go strictly by the word "fortified" then places become better options, but the word is "dangerous", not "fortified". Let's not get side-tracked on what is by far the least synonymous of the secondary words offered.

(Unless you are particularly wishing to, in which case I can let it drag out longer.)

Besides, Sauron still trumps Barad-Dur and Minas Morgul because they are only dangerous because of him. When Sauron perishes, so perishes the foundations of Barad-Dur, so that one is quite plain. And Minas Morgul is only named so (rather than Minas Ithil) thanks to Sauron's ownership, so again that seems plain.

And the House of Ransom would likely prove a dangerous place to go during the years of Turin's stay, but no one ever did go there because the way was not known. And never mind the countless years before that when no one went there. When unwelcome guests finally did show up, they showed up in force and slaughtered the folk there, so it only proved dangerous to the dwellers, and only that one time. Where as the Misty Mts were frequently traversed and often with disastrous results (wolves, orcs, weather, etc.). So quantitatively it's proven more dangerous.

I don't particularly want to toss palantirs so early, but I can't help it next to Silmarils. Not only do they scorch anything that isn't pure, but the wreaked such terrible damage in the world (Morgoth's lust for them drove him, Feanor guarded them so jealously, the Valar's request for them pushed Feanor over the brink, Beren & Luthien's adventure, Carcharoth, Feanor's sons destroying Doriath & the sea-side colony, etc.

And then there's obviously Sauron- the largest destructive force in the world during the second and third ages, and one of the tops of the first. I mean- he's the one that created/finished orcs and trolls, and look at the many results of that. Plus werewolves at Tol-In-Gaurhoth of course, and slaughtering Elves and Men in the second age halted only by Numenor- which he eventually destroyed through trickery. And need we recap the War of the Ring?

Sauron and the Silmarils seem to be in their own category. One simply wants nothing to do with them, and survival rate isn't high when one gets in close proximity... and Misty is sort of my heart's fond choice (memories from imagining them first time reading Hobbit & LotR).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by tp

Nog- Well sure if we go strictly by the word "fortified" then places become better options, but the word is "dangerous", not "fortified". Let's not get side-tracked on what is by far the least synonymous of the secondary words offered.

All the taters are dangerous. Ditto, let's look at the other descriptions to help.

I mean if there was only one dangerous thing, two threatening ones and five fortified I'd say let's pick the dangerous one as that is the main word. But these all are dangerous - so we need other factors in!

You don't seem to get the idea with the House of Ransom (or you pretend not to for some reason ). It is not Amon Rûdh we're talking about here. That is a hill standing there for ages until it was swept under the sea (like Misty Mountains are just a mountain range standing there). But to be the "House of Ransom" is referring to a certain story; death, tragedy, threat, danger, hazard, fortified...

I mean if you had more specific places with a story and real impact like Moria, Caradhras, or Carn Dûm or something you could make a case... but Misty Mountains as such? A pile of rocks...

Also the Silmarils. They were bad for Fëanor and his tribe after the vow Fëanor made. But that's it. Quite limited danger there: only dangerous to the baddies, in a way.

And Sauron then? He's dangerous, threatening, hazardous even... yes he is (there are better candidates for "fortified" whatever you say). But choosing him would be as unimaginative as picking Morgoth had he been available. Or like choosing Pronghorn antelope as the "fast" when the Cheetah was not available. Dull...