Taters to Taters

[Galadriel55]

What a coincidence to have these two green taters right after each other!

[Boromir88]

One thing I wanted to mention, but didn't because again did not want to influence the decision...but...

"extraordinary" always confuses me, especially when I separate the pronunciation to "extra" "ordinary"...because I just think this isn't a word that means special or distinguished. Shouldn't it just mean something is ordinary, only more so?

Therefore, probably would have gone with the Green Dragon, since nothing can be more ordinary than a good inn

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

What a coincidence to have these two green taters right after each other!

They may not have been drawn back-to-back, but still would have been close together.

I drew the first 20 but tossed some that didn't make any sense to have like "chewy" and some of the doubled ones like "conceited" and "arrogant."

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

I drew the first 20 but tossed some that didn't make any sense to have like "chewy"

You tossed "chewy"?

I think something so absurd would be bound to be fun. (Or actually Lembas could've been played with complete seriousness.)

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

You tossed "chewy"?

I think something so absurd would be bound to be fun. (Or actually Lembas could've been played with complete seriousness.)

I could always add it back on if there is a round 21, or insert add it randomly in before, ya know.

[the phantom]

Now, on to violent...

To be perfectly honest I did not play my best card for this one. I judged it would very likely be the most appropriate card on the list from a true and objective point of view (and looking at the list I'd say I was right), however I wasn't certain that Lottie would judge so straightforward and also figured no one would play a bad card this round, thus stiff competition. So I saved that card.

Now, onto the cards that were played. I'd say Lottie has a difficult choice. For what it's worth here are my musings...

VIOLENT, BUT NOT THE FIRST IMAGE THAT POPS TO MIND

MENEGROTH- Violence did happen at Menegroth a couple times, but that isn't its natural state, nor is that the image that leaps to mind. Rather, one thinks of the beautiful halls and the majesty of Elwe and Melian.

BATTLE OF BYWATER- It'd be silly of me to say a battle isn't violent, but after the grand scale of the war against Sauron this little skirmish pales, not to mention the constant restraint of violence preached by Frodo before, during, and after the battle. Plus- Hobbits. It just doesn't resonate.

BEORN- Certainly the thought of him crashing through the Goblin lines to slay Bolg spells violence, but I would feel unfair labeling him as such, as he's capable of great kindness as well. If the tater was "amusingly rude" then I'd be more on board.

TAR-MINASTIR- The only real connection to violence is that one time he sent soldiers to protect the Elves from Sauron, and he didn't even go in person.

GORGOROTH- Barren, extreme, depressing, etc. are the words that pop to mind first. In the war at the end of the second age violence was certainly done upon Gorgoroth, but for hundreds of years before and after it was either empty or owned by Sauron rather than being a land in contention.

CONTENDERS

UNGOLIANT- Perhaps gnawing and hungry are more perfect, but her desire to consume things certainly led to violence against everyone she encountered, and frankly her devouring ways are violent in themselves (biting/ripping/crushing). She has to be considered.

TULKAS- An interesting selection as the representation of positive force, or violence for the sake of good- a reminder that violence need not have only negative associations.

BATTLE OF PELENNOR FIELDS- It was a massive battle and a great deal of destruction and death took place. It's not what leaves the lasting impression (rather the glorious Rohirrim rescue and the joy at the unveiling of the fleet's flags etc. leave an overall positive feeling), but the sheer number of casualties cannot be discounted.

EOL- His hostility towards the Noldor, his semi-abduction of a Noldorin princess (obviously his lust overcame his Noldor-hate), and finally the attempted murder of his son and resulting murder of his wife right in the throne-room of Gondolin and subsequent execution via being tossed off a cliff... This card was well selected.

AR-PHARAZON- A similarly good selection here, with his hostility towards Elves/Valar/the Faithful, his forced marriage to the rightful queen, his military building and conquering of Sauron, and his eventual attempt to seize Valinor from Manwe and company resulting in a violent reshaping of the seas... Violent definitely fits him.

[Gwathagor]

I believe both Barad-dur and Mt. Doom were located on Gorgoroth. If the plateau wasn't violent itself, it certainly contained great violence, being both an unstable, volcanically active area and the lair of a demonic supervillain who is arguably responsible for most of the violence that occurred in Middle-earth.

I would also argue that Beorn is considerably more violent than Eol on pretty much all levels. Higher kill count. Uses claws and fangs, rather than poison darts. Impales victims remains on front gate. Is essentially part wild animal. And I can't imagine that transformation being particularly peaceful either...

[Loslote]

In RL, my judging style involves a lot of taking cards and flinging them over my shoulders saying "no" in a bored tone. Ergo:

Ungoliant: Mmmmmmno.
Menegroth: No.
Tulkas: I'm getting a delightful image of a smiling giant skipping through a field of daisies, bashing in Orc-heads with a warhammer while humming the Little Bunny Foo Foo song. Tulkas stays for now.
Battle of Pelennor Fields: Mmmmmmm...maybe.
Battle of Bywater: For now, it stays, but more for the amusing factor of war-hobbits than any real violence-related reasons.
Eol: OH yes he stays.
Ar-Pharazon: I've always seen him as a bit of a puppet-figure. No.
Beorn: Not cuddly enough to make 'violent' amusing, not evil enough to make 'violent' horrifically appropriate. He bores me. No.
Tar-Minastir: Yeah no.
Gorgoroth: No.

The contenders thus far: Tulkas, the Battle of Pelennor Fields, the Battle of Bywater, and Eol.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Higher kill count.

Awwww, come on, that's a boring way to go about it! Eol's violence was so much more...gloriously unpredictable. You knew he was gonna do something, but what he ended up doing was always unexpected anyway. ^.^

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Gwath

I believe both Barad-dur and Mt. Doom were located on Gorgoroth. If the plateau wasn't violent itself, it certainly contained great violence, being both an unstable, volcanically active area and the lair of a demonic supervillain who is arguably responsible for most of the violence that occurred in Middle-earth.

I like the geological justification for Gorgoroth, but as far as tying it directly to the elsewhere-occuring deeds of Sauron due to proximity to his fortress... That would be like choosing the Misty Mts for "Quick" due to the fact that the speedy Great Eagles happened to make nests in a couple spots in the midst of the range.

I don't like the idea of having too many tie-ins. To choose Gorgoroth it itself must be defined as violent rather than equating ->
Gorgoroth = Barad-Dur = Sauron = His armies = Violence

Originally Posted by Gwath

I would also argue that Beorn is considerably more violent than Eol on pretty much all levels. Higher kill count. Uses claws and fangs, rather than poison darts. Impales victims remains on front gate. Is essentially part wild animal. And I can't imagine that transformation being particularly peaceful either...

If we're going by kill count then why the heck support Beorn? Pelennor Fields dwarfs his kill count, and frankly everyone's kill count put together.

Plus, violence includes an aspect of attitude and potential. If a repeat murderer is locked in a cell and thus can no longer kill people, is he no longer violent? (Since he's not actively engaging in violence.) Obviously, the answer is no. Attitude and potential counts.

Thus with your example of comparing Beorn to Eol, while Eol did not spend a great deal of time killing things, there was a constant underlying threat of force in the captivity of his wife and son, not to mention his use of violence was, as Lottie said, so interestingly inappropriate and unpredictable. Similarly, Beorn may have had a higher "kill count" than Ungoliant, but surely given the opportunity she had the attitude to rack up higher numbers.

And as far as "claws and fangs" go, method of expression is unimportant. I mean honestly, is a kitten that plays pouncing games more violent than Gothmog due to the kitten using claws and teeth and Gothmog utilizing weapons? Preposterous! Violence is force, and that can come across in varied ways, and the tip of an arrow is an equally effective transfer of force compared to claws. The word isn't "wild" or "animal".

Beorn is just too funny and likable at other moments, I think.

[Nogrod]

Violent (furious, vicious, destructive)

Battles are violent by definition, so a battle offered here as an example of violence should have more to offer than the Battle of Bywater - unless you took the sarcastic mode. But also more than the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. Like everything else also battles waned as the ages piled up and the main battle of the third age is more or less but child's play compared to those of the second or first age: think of the Valar and Maiar clashing in the first wars - or all the great Noldorin heroes clashing with Balrogs and other Maiar creatures - and the numbers of elves, men, dwarves, orcs, creatures of any kind going down in those battles. Compared with those the Battle of the Pelennor Fields is child's row at the sandbox.

I would discard the battles then.

I would also discard Menegroth and the plains of Gorgoroth as they were just places and places are not violent but creatures doing things in those places.

What tp said about Tar Atanamir is to the point. But with Ar Pharazôn I'd have to disagree with him and remind you that he wasn't that violent as a person. You could say he was lots of bad stuff, also vicious and destructive, but one should fill the main adjective (violent) first and then get support from the other ones - if the judge is willing to consider them. So I'd discard the Númenorians as well.

That would leave me four choices to whom violence would fit.

Ungoliant
Tulkas
Eol
Beorn

So how about the other / supporting / explanatory / widening adjectives?

Eöl could be said to be vicious in a way and maybe furious, and destructive... well, maybe. But it is clear he has those qualities on a lesser level compared to the other candidates.

Tulkas and Beorn are furious and destructive but not so much vicious. But what they lack in viciousness they gain monumentally by their erraticness or unpredictableness. Both seemed to have this berserk-rage when they didn't quite control themselves - remember Gandalf telling Bilbo & the dwarves not to go out when Beorn was there in a Bear-form but on their peril.

Ungoliant, not surprisingly, seems to fit all the adjectives. Her fury was such that she even challenged Melkor himself, her destructiviness such that she drained all the light from the world - and vicious enough to spawn a whole race of spiders in her bitter hatred against not only the goodies but baddies as well...

Although if one just stresses "violence" I'd pick Tulkas or Beorn. But Ungoliant looks like the perfect pick otherwise.

[Boromir88]

Tally

the phantom - 3 (Honest, Insane, Violent) -I don't think any of these contradict
Kitanna - 1 (Deadly)
Gwath - 1 (Neglected)
Menel - 1 (Cuddly)
Nogrod - 1 (Extraordinary)

-----

ROUND 8

Menel you're to pick the winner of "peaceful"

Pippin
Thingol
The Sea
Dorwinion
Mawe
Lothlorien
Bombur
Miruvor
Asfaloth
Minas Tirith

----

ROUND 9

Green Tater: Charming (pleasant, polite)
Judge: Kitanna

----

Apologies again, I think for future games at this, a co-mod would be fantastic to have. But to avoid more snags...4pm EST I can be assured of having a reliable connection so have Round 9 PMed to me by then (8pm GMT)

Sending out new red taters now.

[Galadriel55]

Mawe? Is that meant to be Manwe?

[the phantom]

Thank you, Lottie. Well chosen!

And what- the game ends if I win again? Surely we'll play more, yes?

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Mawe? Is that meant to be Manwe?

Unless he says otherwise, I'm assuming.

So, on to peaceful...

Wow. These are all awful.

PIPPIN- This little guy spilled the guts of orcs, trolls, and men, and when killing men in the Shire specifically Frodo had to be the voice of restraint to stop Pip and the other Hobbits from just killing everyone.
THINGOL- Overly prideful chap- basically demanded the death of Beren for daring to love his daughter, and certainly killed his share of orcs and such in his day, aside from being in a perpetual state of war.
THE SEA- Aside from storms killing people and the wave the drowned all of Numenor...
DORWINION- Um, there were grapes there, and, um... that's all I know.
MANWE- Went to battle against Melkor, which was hardly peaceful, and then proceeded to sit around idly for the rest of the ages rather than bringing peace to Middle-Earth.
LOTHLORIEN- Peaceful, except all their march-wardens patrolling about to kill intruders, be they Orcs or Men or whatever, and occasionally fighting with Dol Guldur.
BOMBUR- Involved with quite a bit of non-peaceful activities- fighting, running from things, battling, etc. as evidenced by his desire to stay enchanted when he finally found peaceful magic sleep in Mirkwood.
MIRUVOR- Specifically designed to help people make it through extremely non-peaceful ordeals.
ASFALOTH- He took Glorfindel from place to place for the purpose of fighting, chasing, and fleeing in terror.
MINAS TIRITH- Peaceful except when looking east and seeing Mordor which could (and did) attack at any moment, including the biggest battle of the age.

So yeah. I think we need a do-over. I couldn't pick any of these.

[Gwathagor]

STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE
Pippin - He was a warrior, sure, but all hobbits are ultimately peaceful creatures.
Lothlorien - Like being at home and on holiday at the same time.
Bombur - As sedentary as they come.

CURVE BALLS
Dorwinion - Don't know about Dorwinion itself, but Dorwinion wine certainly makes sleepy drunks. I like it.
Asfaloth - Probably the smoothest ride in Middle-earth aside from Shadowfax.
Thingol - Had his share of conflicts, but also spent two decades in a trance.

MISS
The Sea - This is the body of water that swallowed Numenor whole.
Manwe - Peace-loving, yes, but involved in too many earth-shaking conflicts to be considered peaceful.
Minas Tirith - A perennial war zone.
Miruvor - ...

[Galadriel55]

Pippin - him? Peaceful? Nah. You must be confusing him with someone else. The most boysterous hobbit of all ages.

Thingol - hmm, I suppose he can't be called overly aggressive, but at the same time can't say he's overly peaceful either.

The Sea - well, honestly speaking, with the help of Osse the Sea is quite unruly at times, yet I would put a ++ with this choice just because this resonates so much. Also you could say that while the Sea can awaken Sea-longing, travelling West over the Sea cures it, giving one's mind peace.

Dorwinion - it has a big wine industry. Like that helps.

Manwe - see Thingol.

Lothlorien - definitely a peaceful haven for Frodo and company, but look at it from the Elves' POV - they are so harrassed by enemies they can't even allow Gimli to go through without a blindfold!

Bombur - definitely peaceful when asleep.

Miruvor - peaceful miruvor. Peeeeaceful miruvor. Peaceful miruvooooor. Nah.

Asfaloth - I'd say Fatty Lumpkin would have been a better choice.

Minas Tirith - a peaceful Minas Tirith: *sigh* the dream of every Gondorian! (and a dream come true too!)

[Nerwen]

This thread. It is much too peaceful. Not one player has died horribly on this thread yet.

*is in WW withdrawal*

[Meneltarmacil]

I'll have to go with ++Bombur on this. Poor guy kept getting dragged into terrible things through no fault of his own, and he's easily the least violent of the choices presented.
There were two runners-up: Dorwinion, whatever its wine may have been like, was likely an Easterling realm or bordering on one, and those were hardly peaceful during the days of Sauron. Miruvor is basically neutral; it's peacefulness depends on the occasion.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

This thread. It is much too peaceful. Not one player has died horribly on this thread yet.

*is in WW withdrawal*

Ah-ha, I think Kath plans on starting her WW game soon

And Nogrod now has 2 with his choice of Bombur. May continue discussion of this round and previous rounds until 4 (roughly 3 hours and 30 mins)