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#1 |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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As an aside: I actually tried to work out the concept of mallorn-trees not growing in Lindon, as it might be applied to the fuller history of Nerwende Artanis (somewhat vague as it is).
I found it somewhat problematic
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#2 |
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Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,540
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What I've always wondered about is why make Numenor specifically in the shape of a star? From the POV of the characters (the Valar), the "rules" of ME, and the author? Does anyone have some information or elaboration on this bit of symbolism?
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#3 |
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,040
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Well, the island was raised from the ocean bottom by Ossë. The fact that the Edain were guided to it by the Star of Eärendil could certainly have been a factor in the basic shape of the land; maybe a deliberate effort to symbolize the faith that had gotten them there in the hopes they would not forget it.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#4 |
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Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: As my whimsey takes me.
Posts: 43
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I also found the subject of the worship of the Numenoreans most interesting. What specifically struck me was that there were no images, temples, or even standing stones on Meneltarma, save where the Eagles of Manwe perched. At least, as it says, "until the coming of Sauron." That hints that, in turning away the Numenoreans from the Eru and the Valar, Sauron brought idolatry to Numenor.
Speaking of beautiful names, what impressed me most was the names of the trees listed. Especially Yavannamire, which must have had beautiful fruit. I had forgotten, since it has been a nearly eight years since I last read this, that the Mallorn of Lorien were a gift from Numenor. I had always had it stuck in my head they were in Lorien first. Also of interest was the fact that horses of Numenor were trained to hear and answer calls at a great distance, and where there was great love between men and women and their favorite steeds they could be summoned by thought. Would I have enjoyed visiting or living there? From the descriptions, if I happened upon Numenor, I don't think I would ever want to leave! It almost seems like the Valar gave the men of Numenor the closest thing to paradise they could make for mortals.
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"One equal temper of heroic hearts,Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. " Tennyson, Ulysses |
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#5 |
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Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,540
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Personally, I didn't find it so. It was nice to know the customs of the Numenorians, but I really don't like religion and Tolkien being mixed together. I'm not talking about allegories; this is direct mention. I never liked the passages that get into theology and/or worship. I still like the Ainulindale at the beginning of The Sil for other reasons, but it bothers me because of "exess of god".
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#6 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Quote:
... but Cerin Amroth had mallorn-trees. While the matter isn't inexplicable it does make one wonder just when and why Galadriel introduced the Mallorn-trees in Lothlorien -- and yet not in other places (including where her grand-nephew, the High King, had tried to get them to grow originally). |
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#7 |
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Dead Serious
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Despite its brevity and the fact that it isn't properly a tale at all, I think that "A Description of the Island of Númenor" is one of the absolutely key pieces in Unfinished Tales. In terms of factual information, it gives us more information about the culture and geography of Númenor than any other, with the exception of "Aldarion and Erendis," which I think can justifiably be called its companion piece.
The basic story of Númenor is one that we get rather fully in the Appendices--by contrast to anything from the First Age which had to wait until after Tolkien's death to be fleshed out for the fans--and then we get another, slightly fuller, treatment in the Akallabêth. As a major tragedy in Middle-earth's history, the fall of Númenor is perhaps the most important tale in setting up the world of The Lord of the Rings, even more so perhaps than the untold tale of the Last Alliance of Elves and Men. Nonetheless, Númenóreans can come off quite proud and unlikable from the other sources that focus chiefly on the fall and on the role that royalty played therein. At best, we imagine the Númenóreans as proto-Aragorns, but more distantly, without the closeness of Strider-in-Bree. It's easy to think that maybe Middle-earth was better off by forcing these wannabe Elves to have to hobnob in Bree. I say "we," but maybe that's just "me." In any case, if you can see the temptation to see the Númenóreans that way, then "A Description" is an absolutely important piece for showing just what it is that the Númenóreans fell from, this description, chiefly showing Númenor in its early days before the Fall, does that well. With descriptions of forests, agriculture, shepherding fields, and simple, pre-templar worship, the early Númenóreans feel a lot more "real" to me, and a lot closer to "Bree" than before, which is presumably as it should be: Númenor was a gift to the most noble of Men, where they were supposed to enjoy as close a situation to paradise as those under the Gift of the Death can. We aren't supposed to just feel that Ar-Pharazôn got what he deserved and that the Dúnedain are better off with Hobbits in their lives; we're also supposed to feel the longing for something wondrous that was lost that the Exiled Dúnedain feel. On another topic completely, I rather disagree with Galadriel55 about mixing religion and Tolkien, but I almost certainly come from a different "real world" paradigm. Nonetheless, insofar as religion has played an important role in the life of most (real) human cultures, it makes Númenor feel real to have it and it's understated enough that it doesn't seem (to me) incongruent with its silence in The Lord of the Rings; certainly, it's no "Athrabeth."
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#8 |
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Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: As my whimsey takes me.
Posts: 43
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Most people I know would pass over this chapter thinking "That's not very interesting, who cares what Numenor looks like?" It is certainly their loss if they do. This chapter adds so much to the rest of the story that it is almost essential. Case in point the Numenorians themselves, they can't seem to get over the fact that they are exiles and were once so much more than they are. Aragorn lived some 4,000 years after the Downfall yet they still refer to themselves as Numenoreans, Dunedain, rather than just regular men. There is no chance that they will ever, ever go back but they still consider themselves exiles. That is quite pointless until you get a sense, as seen in this chapter, of what they left behind really was. Essentially, they had paradise on earth and were the greatest men that ever would live, so certainly hundreds of generations later their descendants who never saw Numenor would claim to be from it.
I too like the idea of religion in Middle-earth. Most people in the world are religious in some form or another, and to have an idea of a structured religion (rather than just the occasional passing reference to the sky gods) makes imaginary worlds and lands seem all that more real. Speaking of gifts to the most noble of men, this may be a topic for a later chapter discussion but I will risk mentioning it here. There is a passing mention of the king's sword and the footnote mentions Aranruth, which is the sword of Thingol, the Ring of Barahir, and several other relics of the past that belonged to the elder days. I find it interesting that practically all of these relics, though some belonged to elves and others to men, ended up being inherited by the Numenoreans, the Edain rather than the Eldar. Common sense would state the things of such high value would be in the hands of the Elder ones rather than the Younger.
__________________
"One equal temper of heroic hearts,Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. " Tennyson, Ulysses |
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