Orcs... were elves?

[Inziladun]

It's notable though, that much is made of the fact that many Men followed Morgoth anyway. The Edain were rather the exceptions in aiding the Eldar.

Since so many Men were already under Morgoth's sway, why bother making them into Orcs? They weren't stronger, or better fighters than Men, I don't think. Especially when it's also said (though I can't for the moment recall the specific quote) that Morgoth knew the Eldar to have the greater innate power.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Since so many Men were already under Morgoth's sway, why bother making them into Orcs?

I would say, at least in part, for the same reason some Maiar took 'orkish' shapes, to mock the Children of God. The question of orc-origins was still open to Tolkien because all he had actually published was that Orcs were made in mockery of Elves -- but not (necessarily) made from Elves.

Although perhaps more importantly, Treebeard had implied an actual timeline as well, and although Tolkien could get away with saying Treebeard has a great memory even if he couldn't necessarily know the actual origin of orcs (as a character in the story) -- his great memory yet implies that Tolkien 'should' take Treebeard's guidelines, as vague as they might be, into consideration.


Alatar, I realize you weren't saying anything about Men... which was rather my point actually.