The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-15-2011, 10:17 PM   #1
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiwendil View Post
Although a discussion of the relation between Barad-dur and the Ring is clearly not what Tolkien is focused on here, this statement does seem to present a different version of that relationship from what Elrond says. Namely, it suggests that Sauron transferred some of his own power into the foundations of Barad-dur and, quite separately, also transferred some of his own power into the Ring. If this is the case, then maybe the link between Barad-dur and the Ring comes about not because the Ring was used in the making of Barad-dur, but because it was invested with the same power that was invested in Barad-dur. Instead of Sauron -> Ring -> Barad-dur we have Sauron -> Barad-dur and Sauron -> Ring. We might then take Elrond's statement either as an error on his part or as merely an imprecise way of describing the situation.
Perhaps an imprecise description from Elrond. But he does say "made with the ring" not "made by."

Made by would definitely point to Sauron made the Ring then used it to build the foundations. Then as you ask in this thread, we've got a problem with inconsistency.

Made with, I think there is a different interpretation possible. It would suggest the somehow the Sauron-Barad Dur and Sauron-Ring connection leads to Barad-dur's foundations being enhanced. Either it's an effect from the Ring being made or Sauron directly strengthens the foundations, tying its strength to the Ring.

I'd say this is even more likely, since Sauron's own power was enhanced by creating the Ring:

Quote:
While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished.~Letter #131
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 08:14 AM   #2
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
I rather think the Ring fortified the existing structure, but it might be that Sauron could also tap into the existing and eternal corruption of the earth (see Morgoth's Ring) even prior to the Ring being forged. The Ring merely reinforced the corruption of Morgoth (and Sauron, of any being in Arda, would certainly understand his master's concepts, having completed Angband while Morgoth was captive of the Valar).

If you look at another existing structure, Minas Morgul, built by Gondor, it was already a stout fortification. But once inhabited by the WitchKing (who evidently channeled Sauron's power), it became such a place of dread that the evil power which enveloped it superseded the mere stone of the structure. An army would quail in fear simply coming near to it. How then could an army attempt to storm it?

In another fortification, Dol Guldur, Galadriel laid bare the pits and destroyed its foundations. She did this AFTER the One Ring was destroyed. Obviously, there was enough residual evil exuding from the place to warrant its complete destruction before the land could become wholesome again.
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.
Morthoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:26 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.