Tolkien on the Kindle

[Mithalwen]

Well it arrived about an hour or so ago and I have read one essay and am now reading Roverandom (for the first time ...).. I do ever so slightly feel as if I have joined a cult though...

[Gwathagor]

I feel like civilization has probably had this conversation several times. Like when we switched over from the oral tradition to the scroll or the clay tablet, and later on to the leather codex. And think of the backlash there must have been against the printing press - mass-produced books for everybody? But books are supposed to be works of art!

There is no wrong or right textual medium. Each one is different and each one involves its own particular advantages and disadvantages. Books are a more geographical, tactile, kinesthetic experience. You learn in a different way than when you read an etext, because you can feel the book and each piece of information gets tied to a specific location. The etext is more abstract, but it's also more fluid. It allows for greater connectivity with other texts and information, via not only your particular device, but through the internet.

It will change the way we read and, even more, the way we think. But books won't ever completely die out because they have substance and texture and smell, which is something the internet will never be able to replicate. People need that physical connection to the world.

[Mithalwen]

Very true .. I suppose it is a bit of a switch for me because I haven't adopted other comparable devices - I don't own an MP3 player or digital camera (other than the ones on my cell phone which I cannot get to work). Obviously I use a computer but I find when I write longhand I use a fountain pen and nice paper. I don't see me giving up on reall books - I have too many nice ones but I will be able to declutter a bit! I think the real joy will be the obscure stuff I now have access to.

I still find my hand automatically going to the top corner at the end of the page!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Very true .. I suppose it is a bit of a switch for me because I haven't adopted other comparable devices - I don't own an MP3 player or digital camera (other than the ones on my cell phone which I cannot get to work). Obviously I use a computer but I find when I write longhand I use a fountain pen and nice paper. I don't see me giving up on reall books - I have too many nice ones but I will be able to declutter a bit! I think the real joy will be the obscure stuff I now have access to.

I still find my hand automatically going to the top corner at the end of the page!

I expect we will actually start to see MORE people using fountain pens and so on in a reaction to the increasingly digital world. Or if not in reaction to it, then in a mindset of "If I'm going to do this analog thing, I'm going to go all the way and do it RIGHT." I never write with anything but my Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pen these days. It's just a more enjoyable experience.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I never write with anything but my Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pen these days. It's just a more enjoyable experience.

But how do you deal with the ink on your computer screen?

[Gwathagor]

Contact paper.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I never write with anything but my Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pen these days. It's just a more enjoyable experience.

It is also because my nice Cross pen makes my scratchy handwriting vaguely legible in a baby shelob has danced across the page kind of way....

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

It will change the way we read and, even more, the way we think. But books won't ever completely die out because they have substance and texture and smell, which is something the internet will never be able to replicate. People need that physical connection to the world.

Well, until the Kindle lets me pencil in comments and underlinings and stick sticky tabs with ideas on pages, I think I'll keep my old style paperbacks. (Not that I do this with hardcovers.)

[Mithalwen]

Well it apparently does if you can forgo the pencil.. but I remember being severly punished for writing on books as a child so even when a tutor recommended doing so I couldn't.... I might lightly pencil a score but not a book on the whole.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Well, until the Kindle lets me pencil in comments and underlinings and stick sticky tabs with ideas on pages, I think I'll keep my old style paperbacks. (Not that I do this with hardcovers.)

Exactly!

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I feel like civilization has probably had this conversation several times.

Yes, agreed. Like it or not, this is the way things are heading. The good news is that for most of us, there will be more physical books around for the rest of our lives than we can ever hope to read. On the other hand, if you are a fan of contemporary authors, you may find that soon(ish), electronic editions are the only, or at least by far the most convenient, way to read some of the writers that you love.

I have more to say, but right now I'm eager to get back to Stephen King's latest novella, Mile 81, which, for now at least, is only available electronically.

[Mithalwen]

I heard a feature on the radio yesterday though that was saying how now the print on demand technology has improved and all books exist digitally books you should always be able to get a hard copy. Apparently Blackwell's in Oxford has a machine which will deliver the book of your choice in under five minutes. On the whole I think more things are going to be more available. But since I shall be spending most of tomorrow morning sitting on the beach, quite possibly in the rain (there is a reason for this I am not merely mascochistically English) I shank risk the new toy and take a "realbook"

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I heard a feature on the radio yesterday though that was saying how now the print on demand technology has improved and all books exist digitally books you should always be able to get a hard copy.

Yes, print-on-demand was what I had in mind when I added the "by far the most convenient" caveat. It'll be interesting to see how the technology develops there. All too often POD books are characterized by low production values, and are more expensive and less easy to acquire than an ebook.

Originally Posted by JRR Tolkien

Long ago Chesterton truly remarked that, as soon as he heard that anything “had come to stay,” he knew that it would be very soon replaced—indeed regarded as pitiably obsolete and shabby .

Heh -- you mean like paper books? Brick-and-mortar bookstores? Vinyl, cassettes, CDs? Anyway, I didn't say that ebooks were here to stay, only that they appear to be the next thing. No doubt the written word itself will someday become obsolete after we all upload and transcend biology (). In the meantime, mass market paperbacks are already on their way out.

I take no delight at all in watching the paper book become an endangered animal. On the contrary, my house is partially furnished with them, and I've lugged many hundreds of pounds worth around with me wherever I go ever since I moved out of my parents' house to attend college lo these many years ago. I still buy paper books. I still hunger for some of the beautiful rare editions that I can't quite justify financially.

But the writing is on the wall, and I prefer to embrace the upsides of ebooks (democratization of content, more money per sale into the pocket of the author in many cases, convenience, searchable, etc.).

Bêthberry, my dear -- you already can highlight and annotate electronic editions. Although, as with others here, I never scribble in my books and I've never felt compelled to try out the feature on the Kindle.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Bêthberry, my dear -- you already can highlight and annotate electronic editions. Although, as with others here, I never scribble in my books and I've never felt compelled to try out the feature on the Kindle.

I have very good company for my pecadillos, Mister U, as Coleridge not only marked up Lamb's early folio of Shakespeare with his comments about the Bard but had the unspeakably bad manners to spill jam on it. So apparently the folio has now doubled in value. (not *cough* that any of my scribblings will be that memorable.)

I can certainly see the value of travelling with a Kindle, as one would have a variety of books at one's disposal all for one weight. And they will of course save trees. I'm just not at the stage yet of curling up with a good Kindle.

[Mister Underhill]

I don't judge. I've spilled many a condiment, not to mention various beverages, crumbs, and smears of dessert, amongst the timeless words of literature's greatest lights, so far be it from me.

Still, if you're the scribbling, highlighting type, I think there is the option to connect your marginalia socially. This may end up being the thing that puts the stake through the heart of the paperback. Not every author spawns fora dedicated to his or her work like our dear professor; the ability to connect socially with other aficionados is something that a paper book can't provide.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

On the other hand, if you are a fan of contemporary authors, you may find that soon(ish), electronic editions are the only, or at least by far the most convenient, way to read some of the writers that you love.

Hmm.... to quote JRRT in OFS -

Long ago Chesterton
truly remarked that, as soon as he heard that anything “had come to stay,” he knew that it would be very soon replaced—indeed regarded as pitiably obsolete and shabby

.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I heard a feature on the radio yesterday though that was saying how now the print on demand technology has improved and all books exist digitally books you should always be able to get a hard copy.

The downside of print on demand is no more remaindered bookshops - wherein I have found many wonderful books.

As someone who is in the middle of using Sigil & Calibre to format a friend's ebook for publication on Kindle (& hoping it will all work as it should ) I do like the 'democratic' aspect of ebooks - no trying to find a publisher, getting a decent deal for the author, & waiting months for the thing to be available (& then trying to get the thing onto the shelves, etc).

[Mithalwen]

I got my Carpenter biography remaindered but having had to wait 20 years to get a copy of The road goes ever on and ten ot complete my set of HoME knowing things will be always available at the touch of a button is wonderful. My main caveat about e books (apart from the tactile one) is that it is fine for the things you know you want but I am not sure I will make hte happy discoveries of things I didn't know I wanted to read until I saw them. Anyway early days..the first thing I goe was an interesting article on Tolkien that I never would have had the chance to read otherwise...