Tuor: the Anti-Turin

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

It would be interesting to ask how much free will Turin has since he seems predisposed to make the wrong choices at critical moments. Not always (he is successful at different periods of time), but he still makes major mistakes often enough. I would say he has free will, but there's still an outside force nudging him in the wrong direction.

There are other threads that talk about this, but this is what I think:

The curse turns most of Turins deeds into evil. He has free will, but no matter how good his choice may seem at the moment, it always turns back on him.

Melian tried to shield him and Morwen from the curse. Morwen didn't listen from the start, but she succeeded with Turin, until he started taking matters into his own hands. Ultimately, though, Melian's protection cost her the life of her husband and her kingdom.


That makes me think of what would happen with Tuor if he was Turin. Would he listen to Ulmo (not that Ulmo would choose Turin anyways)? Would he kill Voronwe? How long would Gondolin have lasted?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

There are other threads that talk about this, but this is what I think:

The curse turns most of Turins deeds into evil. He has free will, but no matter how good his choice may seem at the moment, it always turns back on him.

Melian tried to shield him and Morwen from the curse. Morwen didn't listen from the start, but she succeeded with Turin, until he started taking matters into his own hands. Ultimately, though, Melian's protection cost her the life of her husband and her kingdom.


That makes me think of what would happen with Tuor if he was Turin. Would he listen to Ulmo (not that Ulmo would choose Turin anyways)? Would he kill Voronwe? How long would Gondolin have lasted?

I wonder if the curse actually affected Turin himself. Did it have any power over him, or just over his circumstances? Certainly he was put through terrible situations and tribulations, but how much of the curse was himself, his own acceptance and ownership of the dark name that had been placed upon him? Maybe all Morgoth had to do was create the right situation in order to unleash the darkness inside Turin.

Again, a Macbeth sort of thing.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That makes me think of what would happen with Tuor if he was Turin. Would he listen to Ulmo (not that Ulmo would choose Turin anyways)? Would he kill Voronwe? How long would Gondolin have lasted?

Doubtless Tuor would make mistakes, though I do not think they would be as grievous as Túrin's. Tuor is by nature humble and wise, and would probably heed the advice of his friends and seniors better. He would not, I think, come to such a dark end as Túrin did. I do not know if he would kill Voronwë. Even Túrin only killed Beleg by pure and complete accident; it had nothing to do with his pride or his stubbornness. Tuor could just as easily make the same mistake, if cursed by a Dark Lord.

I do not want to know what would happen to Gondolin As if its end was not bad enough already!