Itaril

[Oddwen]

Showing promise as a fighter at a young age, ITARIL was chosen to train to become part of the Woodland King’s Guard. This is the only life she has ever expected to live, until she meets and secretly falls in love with a young ELF LORD.

Well, so long as it's so secret we never get a whiff of it...

Or maybe she will be shown in flashback as the love of Thranduil.

Welp. I'll see it in the theater, buy it, and then never be able to read The Hobbit again, just like LotR. Thanks PJ.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

Welp. I'll see it in the theater, buy it, and then never be able to read The Hobbit again, just like LotR.

I thought it was going to be "never be able to watch it again"!

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Well, no surprise I guess, in a big block-buster these days there has to be a strong, female character to appeal to a very profitable demographic group.

Apparently, females can only be 'strong' when they wield a sword and ride a horse better than Glorfindel I just can't understand why...

[Galadriel]

[QUOTE=Galadriel55;649097]Thranduil will die in the middle of the Battle of 5 armies.
Legolas will take over.
He'll get wounded/will be dying./QUOTE]

Lol, if Legolas takes over the fangurls will pounce on PJ demanding to know why Legolas wasn't treated like a king in the trilogy

[Jolly Cotton]

It's not surprising that PJ is creating a new fictional character (it's a fictional book remember guys!), I mean this is PJ. The same PJ who reduced Merry and Pippin to comic relief. The very same left out the proper end of the story!

So now we have Frodo (albeit for a very short time at the start), Legolas, and now an elfmadien. Next PJ will realise a statement saying RicK Astley will produce the soundtrack...!

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Jolly Cotton

Next PJ will realise a statement saying RicK Astley will produce the soundtrack...!

And then Legolas can sing to Itaril how he's never gonna give her up!!

Of course, one of my friends astutely pointed out that on IMDB (which is ever so reliable at the moment) Itaril's only listed for the first film... if so, I don't know what's better, her not being in the second film, or the high chances of her dying tragically in the first!

Welcome to the 'Downs, Jolly, and I hope you enjoy being dead!

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

And then Legolas can sing to Itaril how he's never gonna give her up!!

Better than that, during the Battle of Five Armies Itaril can leap in front of Legolas and say while she is wheezing her last wheeze, "*gasp* Some people *choke* do crazy things *snort* when they're in love."

[Dimturiel]

Maybe the fact that Itaril will fall for Legolas (assuming it's him, but I'm 99% sure it really is) is not that bad. I mean, think of this: she could have fallen for Bilbo instead. Or she could have been Thorin's love interest and convince him to renounce his greedy ways (then, of course, she will be quickly dismissed from the king's guard, because seriously now, a relationship between a member of Thranduil's guard and a dwarf?. How positively scandalous!). See? It could always be worse.

[Elfchick7]

Originally Posted by Dimturiel

Or she could have been Thorin's love interest and convince him to renounce his greedy ways.

I mean, I'd fall for Thorin if he's played by Richard Armitage. :P

Seriously, though, I really hope that P.J. doesn't screw up this story too much. I thought that he did a fairly decent job with LOTR, in spite of some painful character rewrites, but from what I've been hearing, I'm more than a little worried about the fate of the hobbit.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Dimturiel

Or she could have been Thorin's love interest and convince him to renounce his greedy ways (then, of course, she will be quickly dismissed from the king's guard, because seriously now, a relationship between a member of Thranduil's guard and a dwarf?. How positively scandalous!). See? It could always be worse.

No, actually, that would be better!

[xMellrynxMaidenx]

Well I say she should have been Bombur's love interest instead.

Coax him into joining weight watchers and the like...

Poor Tolkien is probably doing back flips, front flips, cartwheels and any other type of exercise you can think of, in his grave currently. I'm not against her completely, but I knew something like this would happen, given you don't see any females- save for Lobelia (sp?) I think- in the book (rather, none that Tolkien had paid specific attention to).

Knowing PJ's track record, Leggy and Itaril will be out fighting heck off hinges in the Bot5A and she'll do exactly what Galadriel said:

Better than that, during the Battle of Five Armies Itaril can leap in front of Legolas and say while she is wheezing her last wheeze, "*gasp* Some people *choke* do crazy things *snort* when they're in love."

[Galadriel55]

How about Bilbo's long lost ex-wife?

"Bilbo, honey, do bring me the Arkenstone, please. It would make me really happy. There you go! You've always been a good boy."
*makes retching noises*

[Galadriel55]

Ronan didn't sign the contract yet! She says here that she will play Itaril, but what if she changes her mind all of a sudden?

[Erendis]

Allright,we will have a kick-*** Mary Sue,Legolas in love,a disapproving Thranduil-because the bad ada-in-law is also essential-,and a single-horned goat.Splendid!

By the way,I have two additions here:
a)Aragorn in the love story causing a love triangle because Itaril has a taste for early teenagers.Legolas keeps a grudge and guess how Gollum escaped
b)Since the goat is multicoloured,she must be the pet of Saruman of Many Colours.

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

The very name of the character sounds like a synthetic drug with numerous debilitating side-effects, something like Sildenafil: a drug first developed to treat angina but, because of its unanticipated side effects, marketed instead as an oral treatment for erectile dysfunction -- notwithstanding "reports of vision loss in people taking PDE5 inhibitors" (Wikipedia).

Since Tolkien's Elves have pretty much given up on Middle-earth and haven't reproduced much in several thousand years, the whole concept of "young" elves who "fall in love" with each other (before catching the last boat to the Undying Lands) sounds too ludicrous to contemplate. Nonetheless, even the ridiculous can inspire poetic -- if not pharmacological -- possibilities. Consider:

"Elvish Erectile Dysfunction"

Itaril,
What cheesy swill:
A damsel dim and shallow.

Itaril,
Sildenafil:
Viagra for the fallow.

Itaril,
Progammed to kill,
Yet gooey as marshmallow.

Itaril,
An elf-chick thrill,
Synthetic, sick, and hollow.

Itaril,
A bitter pill,
Impossible to swallow.

Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright 2011

[Galadriel55]

Welcome to the 'Downs, Misfortune Teller! Enjoy being among the dead!

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

The very name of the character sounds like a synthetic drug with numerous debilitating side-effects, something like Sildenafil

I think her name in the books was Itarille in Quenya and Idril is Sindarin. PJ shortened the Quenya version to fit his character. Itarille sounds rather nice...

PS: I love your poem!

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ronan didn't sign the contract yet! She says here that she will play Itaril, but what if she changes her mind all of a sudden?

Maybe it isn't her? I wonder if they are having second thoughts. I am not a huge fan of the films - I haven't watched the later ones all the way through since I saw them in the cinema. So I am probably very out of touch with the zeitgeist of the people who really like the films, but has anyone been enthusiastic about the Itaril role? They did change the Arwen Warrior princesss scenario. However they do have 2 films to fill now... so presumably have to make up some drivel.

Also with PJ's surgery and juggling Martin Freeman's commitment to Sherlock (26 weeks of this year!) it may be difficult to firm up the contracts of actors playing relatively peripheral characters but who maybe otherwise in demand. After all if you want the likes of Cate Blanchett to do a cameo you probably have to film it when it suits her even if you are Peter Jackson.

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

When I first got wind of this transparent travesty, I thought: "Oh, sure. And you might as well let Vicky Vale into the Bat Cave and Lois Lane into the Fortress of Solitude while you're at it." Then I remembered that someone actually did those dreadful deeds -- and made lots of money doing them. Consequently (as a form of D.I.Y. psychotherapy for literary depression), I thought of:

"Androgynous Casting Calls"

A casting call went out one day,
An actress wanted to portray
A crappy Hollywood cliché,
A role called Mary Sue:
A female elf, both fell and fey,
And young, as well, which is to say,
In love, and thus all hot to slay
Whatever troll gets in the way
Between her and her Elf Lord gay --

"Oh, what's a girl to do?"

"For if my lord loves him, not me,
Or -- even worse -- a Dwarf or tree,
What good can Kung-Fu training be
If I don't get some kissing?"

Yet few who know would disagree
That half-a-billion budgets free
Directors from Earth’s gravity.
So killer-elf-chick scenes we’ll see
With young elf lords AC/DC:
The Hobbit as some bad TV,
Discounted soon on DVD –

With only Tolkien missing.

Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright 2011

[Galadriel55]

Amazing poetry!
I have one question for you, though - why be inspired by an unexisting character in the books and an unexisting one yet in the movies, just out of curiosity?

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I have one question for you, though - why be inspired by an unexisting character in the books and an unexisting one yet in the movies, just out of curiosity?

First off, I would find human wisdom, compassion, and love inspiring, too -- if I could locate suitable examples. Unfortunately, I have to work with the material at hand.

Second, I continue checking on the IMDB (Internet Movie Database) website -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/fullcredits -- where I continue to see the pseudo-role of "Itaril" associated with the name of teenage actress Saoirse Ronan. Absent any official denial, I have to take this cast listing as evidence of "existence" in the forthcoming films.

Third, I must assume -- in accordance with Murphy's Law -- that anything the film makers CAN do wrong, they WILL do wrong. As a specific example of this universal truism, I submit the recent collaboration between Peter Jackson and Saoirse Ronan that resulted in the critical and box-office turkey known as "The Lovely Skeleton" (or something like that).

Finally, apart from writing verse as a form of self-help psychotherapy, I wish to do my part in a campaign of guerrilla preemptive lampooning: one that effectively articulates the utter absurdity of including a fan-girl love-interest "warrior" into a simple story that neither needs nor can likely survive such moronic meddling. Hopefully, if enough concerned cinema consumers protest loudly and long enough, someone in a position to scrap this stupidity will come to their senses and do so. Consequently, I offer another poetic polemic, entitled:

"Implausible Cliché Scenarios"

She thought she'd live a life of dedication
To fighting in her Woodland King's defense
But found that exercise and perspiration
Brought little in the way of compensation
And left her feeling frustrated and tense.

A young Elf Lord then made his due appearance
Which caused the Lovely Skeleton to swoon
And fantasize that with some perseverance
She might obtain her king's discharge and clearance
To consummate some "love" beneath the moon.

But she had signed a contract with conditions:
Like, "No liaisons with the royalty!"
In order to avoid undue suspicions
That hanky-panky might screw up the missions,
Morale required enforced celibacy.

However, girls can dream about "romances"
With young Elf lords so eager to undress.
What talent lacks, some pulchritude enhances,
And starting near the top improves the chances
For sleeping up the ladder of success.

Then Bilbo, Gandalf, and some dwarves upended
Her dreams when they came blundering on scene.
And thus she found her reveries suspended
When duty called and greedy foes contended
For treasure guarded by a dragon mean.

She suited up for fighting then, deflated,
For as her part demanded, she must die.
The writers of the script had her created
To love a young Elf Lord she never dated
While only grinning goblins said: "Goodbye!"

So do not ask and do not tell the story
Of what transpires when elf-chicks "love" and "fight."
No cliché in the gimmick inventory,
By age and repetition rendered hoary
Can compensate with heat for lack of light.

Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright 2011

[Morthoron]

With all this Mary-Sue meter, I believe a Clerihew is called for:

Of the dubious character Itaril,
Some may call her a bitter pill;
Yet along came Saoirse Ronan
To play this Elfess Conan.

[Galadriel55]

Itaril (or Saoirse Ronan) should be proud to have a thread full of poetry devoted to her!

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Itaril (or Saoirse Ronan) should be proud to have a thread full of poetry devoted to her!

Not just proud, but honoured that she has a thread full of poetry devoted to her by (mostly) purists.

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

You misunderstand. Not poetry devoted to her, but a polemic aimed at her. Therein lies a world of difference. I guess I'd better try again with:

The Lovely Elf-Chick Security Guard

I didn't see The Lovely Fossil movie.
The subject of the film did not appeal.
Dead girls reanimated "up in heaven"?
You must be joking, Peter. Please get real.

And now you want to screw up Tolkien's Hobbit
By writing in a role that isn't clear?
Just for an actress who has played a dead girl?
(And not to great success, or so I hear.)

I know you'd like to make a ton of money
With all the franchise toys and games and such.
But elf-chick Barbie Dolls sold at McDonalds?
You really don't think that's a bit too much?

And what gives with this Young Elf Lord we've heard of?
Her "secret" love for him just reeks of cheese.
The last we heard he had a Dwarf companion
Whom he preferred to everything but trees.

So after she's killed Smaug and giant spiders;
Slayed orcs and goblins, wargs, and evil men,
While saving Middle Earth and Bilbo Baggins
And Gandalf and some Dwarves -- what happens then?

It seems that you don't have much of a story
From which to make two films where one would do
And therefore need "additions" to "improve" things
To which this Tolkien "purist" says: screw you!

Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright 2011

[Galadriel55]

I wish PJ would read that!

[tylerfh]

Originally Posted by Dimturiel

And who thought up this character anyway? She sounds like something a 13 year old would invent, trying to make up an idealised version of herself.
...
And ayway, would this movie - or any movie for that matter - really not sell unless it had a cheesy romance in it?

EXACTLY!!! When I read the casting call about Itaril falling in love with a young elf-lord, all I could picture was the screaming adolescent Twilight fangirls. *puts finger down throat*

If they reduce a part of the GREATEST FANTASY CANON EVER WRITTEN to that level, I'm sending some people to see ol' Mandos. If it's absolutely necessary to have a romance in the movies, cheat on the chronology a little and put in how Arwen and Aragorn met. Anything would be better...And if they're looking for side-plot material, there's plenty of stuff to fill up space: Smaug's attack on the dwarves, the dwarves' war with the goblins, the White Council, Sauron in Dol-Guldur, Gollum's capture by Gandalf afterwards...I could go on.

I've created a page on Facebook, and maybe if enough people join it will send a message to PJ and company:
www.facebook.com/Hobbit.Fans.Against.Itaril
everyone join if you want Itaril cut out!

[Bêthberry]

What's needed is something in keeping with old fairy tales.

We have Luthien doing her Rapunzel bit.

What The Hobbit's dwarves need is a good housekeeper.*runs off to figure out the Sindarin or Quenya for "Snow White"*

[narfforc]

Maybe Glosfaen/Losfain.... any thoughts?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

What's needed is something in keeping with old fairy tales.

What about a WitchKing that eats Hobbits who have nibbled on his gingerbread barrow? Or perhaps a wooden Legolas yearning to be a real boy?

[xMellrynxMaidenx]

Originally Posted by tylerfh

EXACTLY!!! When I read the casting call about Itaril falling in love with a young elf-lord, all I could picture was the screaming adolescent Twilight fangirls. *puts finger down throat*

If they reduce a part of the GREATEST FANTASY CANON EVER WRITTEN to that level, I'm sending some people to see ol' Mandos. If it's absolutely necessary to have a romance in the movies, cheat on the chronology a little and put in how Arwen and Aragorn met. Anything would be better...And if they're looking for side-plot material, there's plenty of stuff to fill up space: Smaug's attack on the dwarves, the dwarves' war with the goblins, the White Council, Sauron in Dol-Guldur, Gollum's capture by Gandalf afterwards...I could go on.

I've created a page on Facebook, and maybe if enough people join it will send a message to PJ and company:
www.facebook.com/Hobbit.Fans.Against.Itaril
everyone join if you want Itaril cut out!

After watching the latest Hobbitin5 video, they are adding in the bit with the White Council, which should be interesting to see.

My views on Itaril are neutral now. I mean, as long as PJ doesn't twist and mangle the main plot-line violently, tossing her in doesn't bother me as much as it did before. As of yet, I don't think Orlie will be in the movie (which we all know he's the young elf-lord, who else? Then again, it could be one of the twin sons...you never know, PJ would do it), so I don't think it will focus too much on that. Bard the Bowman is too much of a main character to give his role away to someone else (IE Glorfindel's role was given to Arwen in the movies, in which PJ did that simply for the romance of Arwen and Aragorn*). Concerning Glorfindel's role, WE know as fans of the book-verse that his role is important, but the main thing I think PJ saw was that it was small.

If memory serves me correct, Glorfindel at the request of Lord Elrond, rode out to help Frodo reach Rivendell (I've not made it far after this in re-reading the series, so if I'm wrong someone please re-freshen my memory). A role as small as that (no matter the importance of the person) can be given away to another character. I'm not saying it was okay and that it should have been given away, because personally I don't understand PJ casting someone as Glorfindel in the movies and NOT giving that person their rightful role in the first place. The main reason, no doubt, was for the romance. Bard the Bowman, however, plays a bigger role in the Hobbit.


At least someone was brave enough to bring this wonderful world alive for us; it's definitely not easy. Sure, they could be a bit more correct with certain scenes, but the thing that counts is that at least WE know what really happened.

* My assumption

Edit: I'm uncertain, after re-reading my post, that the twin sons possibly wasn't even born at the time (though I think they may have been, the Hobbit began 55 -?- years before the Lord of the Rings and the Twin Sons were born in 130 TA)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

What's needed is something in keeping with old fairy tales.

What The Hobbit's dwarves need is a good housekeeper.*runs off to figure out the Sindarin or Quenya for "Snow White"*

There's a song to Varda that calls her "Snow-white" - sung by Gildor's Elves in "Three is Company". Maybe she would like to get more involved in the daily doings of Middle-earth?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by xMellrynxMaidenx

At least someone was brave enough to bring this wonderful world alive for us; it's definitely not easy. Sure, they could be a bit more correct with certain scenes, but the thing that counts is that at least WE know what really happened.

Personally, I can do without PJ, or anyone else bringing Tolkien's work "alive". It isn't necessary.

If they're looking for a fairy-tale angle though, why does it have to be a well-known English-based one? I vote for some tie-in to this tale. Then the Battle of Five Armies can be won by a living tree-stump baby eating the Orcs. Here's a thought: that could replace Beorn!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Mellryn

A role as small as that (no matter the importance of the person) can be given away to another character.

I understand that it would be very confusing for someone to watch a movie where there are dozens of different characters and all have different importat but small roles. However, PJ is such a hypocrite - he takes away roles from LOTR, but adds them to TH!

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Maybe Glosfaen/Losfain.... any thoughts?

Well, according to the Ardalambion, lossë or lossëa means 'fallen snow' or 'snow white', so we have something to work on.

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

There's a song to Varda that calls her "Snow-white" - sung by Gildor's Elves in "Three is Company". Maybe she would like to get more involved in the daily doings of Middle-earth?

But can she cook, Esty?

Originally Posted by Morth

What about a WitchKing that eats Hobbits who have nibbled on his gingerbread barrow? Or perhaps a wooden Legolas yearning to be a real boy?

Ohhh, I see great potential for the true story of the film script in our newly revamped RPG fora. Seriously. Could we best PJ (and his script writers) at his game?

Originally Posted by Inzil

If they're looking for a fairy-tale angle though, why does it have to be a well-known English-based one? I vote for some tie-in to this tale. Then the Battle of Five Armies can be won by a living tree-stump baby eating the Orcs. Here's a thought: that could replace Beorn!

Oh, to be canonical it would have to be a Brothers Grimm tale.

[Elfchick7]

Originally Posted by xMellrynxMaidenx

Bard the Bowman is too much of a main character to give his role away to someone else (IE Glorfindel's role was given to Arwen in the movies, in which PJ did that simply for the romance of Arwen and Aragorn*).

What is the official fate of dear Bard? Anyone know? Onering.net Lists him as "not yet cast" Have any of y'all heard the official word on that?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Elfchick7

What is the official fate of dear Bard? Anyone know? Onering.net Lists him as "not yet cast" Have any of y'all heard the official word on that?

Who needs Bard when you have Legolas?

[Mithalwen]

TO be fair Bard isn't actually needed til the second film. I wonder if they are dithering about this Itaril character - I haven't seen many people really positive about it even among the PJ acolytes. Also I think I saw Ronan had a lead role that might clash. Here's hoping.

[narfforc]

Originally Posted by xMellrynxMaidenx

Edit: I'm uncertain, after re-reading my post, that the twin sons possibly wasn't even born at the time (though I think they may have been, the Hobbit began 55 -?- years before the Lord of the Rings and the Twin Sons were born in 130 TA)

The main events of The Lord of the Rings occured during the the years 3018/19 TA, so they would be some thousands of years old.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I wonder if they are dithering about this Itaril character - I haven't seen many people really positive about it even among the PJ acolytes.

Well enough is enough, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Also I think I saw Ronan had a lead role that might clash. Here's hoping.

Call me pesimist if you like, but if she won't be abe to do it, PJ will find someone else who will.

[Mithalwen]

Enough was enough for me a long time ago...