Christopher Tolkien at it again....

[davem]

Do you know the most interesting thing about this badge thing - everyone, pro & anti, just believed it!

The 'anti-' side attacked the Estate for its intolerant, heavy handed behaviour, the 'pro-' side defended them while offering excuses, but no-one just came out & said 'There must be some mistake - they wouldn't behave like that - the story must be wrong!'

And maybe that should worry the Estate, because they now have that kind of reputation - people now believe that that kind of behaviour is perfectly typical of them.

Which, of course, is what happens when you repeatedly sic the lawyers on people. You may win the battles, but you lose the war.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by davem

Do you know the most interesting thing about this badge thing - everyone, pro & anti, just believed it!

Speak for yourself! I was withholding judgment, and I still am, because both the Estate's interpretation and the "why go after this one?" interpretation are still believable to me. If people are willing to believe that the Estate is being a censor in the case of the buttons, I think that has a lot more to do with the narrative built up about the Estate in particular, and authors' estates in general, well before the Estate had done anything to justify that interpretation, than because its actions are now fitting closer to that pattern.

Regarding the book--could it be the reason that this book was targeted over other Inklings books is because this one uses the fictional Tolkien that Tolkien himself created, who translated the Red Book of Westmarch from the Westron?

In other words, the other Inklings books that I've heard of may use Tolkien in a fantasy type setting, but I don't think they've yet tried doing it in the sense of "Tolkien translated all of these manuscripts and Middle-earth was real in some way, shape, or form." This isn't what the news sources have said, but it would give the Estate's case of "copyright infringement" something to stand on. Of course, this would open up a whole, huge can of worms, over what the difference is between an author and the author's own fictional representations of himself, the difference between fact and fiction, etc. But it certainly makes the Estate's actions appear more logical, if not necessarily justifiable.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

In other words, the other Inklings books that I've heard of may use Tolkien in a fantasy type setting, but I don't think they've yet tried doing it in the sense of "Tolkien translated all of these manuscripts and Middle-earth was real in some way, shape, or form." This isn't what the news sources have said, but it would give the Estate's case of "copyright infringement" something to stand on. Of course, this would open up a whole, huge can of worms, over what the difference is between an author and the author's own fictional representations of himself, the difference between fact and fiction, etc. But it certainly makes the Estate's actions appear more logical, if not necessarily justifiable.

This says that besides the issue with the book's cover design, the Estate thinks the book

...."trivialises the name, personality and reputation of the late professor".

Maybe the Estate's being petty, but it's their right to challenge things like this if they feel it necessary. Leave it for the courts!
Now, my judgement may be colored by the fact that I really am not interested in reading the book at all, and wouldn't be even if the Estate had no objections to it, but I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[garm]

This issue has not caused nearly so much fuss on many of the other Tolkien sites I lurk on; but there was a small flurry of interest on Torn some time back.

http://newboards.theonering.net/foru...at+Mode#326938

One of the lawyers in the group gives an assessment of Hillaard's complaint, in a post titled 'I've read the cease and desist letter.

On the whole, I think the thread gives a well-balanced selection of views. The same can be said of the Wheelbarrows book - folk on other sites have discussed it in a reasonable way, including the book's other author, Neil Holford .

http://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/...ode=0&start=10

[davem]

So.... what we have:

The Tolkien Estate has, over recent months prevented publication of at least a couple of non-fiction books (Books of Jonah & Wheelbarrows at Dawn), the publication of a fantasy series (cf the mention on Boing Boing - which the Estate's lawyers did not dispute), are attempting to ban & pulp an existing novel (self published & which without their intervention would probably have sold a few hundred copies & then vanished without trace, but which through their legal action has resulted in stories being run across the media, including major news sites like the Guardian & the Mail, & has even got a mention on the New York Times site: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/fashion/03Crib.html ). To top this catalogue of disasters off the cumulative effect of all this is that a story can be run stating that they have threatened legal action over the selling of a badge that mentions Tolkien's name - & even the Estate's strongest supporters believe that to be true based on the recent actions of the Estate & their lawyers.

I'd say the Estate's reputation is looking pretty poor, & that they've no-one to blame but themselves.

And now, let's ask what harm, exactly, would have resulted from letting Jonah & Wheelbarrows go ahead, & ignoring Mirkwood? None at all. The Estate have been stupid & shot themselves in the foot repeatedly..

[garm]

Here's another discussion page -

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/forum...asp?TID=239504

-the 2nd post by 'Findegil' is of particular interest.

[davem]

Originally Posted by garm

Here's another discussion page -

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/forum...asp?TID=239504

-the 2nd post by 'Findegil' is of particular interest.

Yes, what they ignore is the harm that is done when a perfectly harmless book, produced by a couple of dedicated Tolkien fans & scholars, is stopped from being published - at best it makes them look overly litigious & at worst like they've got something to hide - or at lest that they don't want to be made public. The 'copyright' allocation issue they bring up is a bit of a red herring to my mind & should have been overlooked or forgiven - to use it as ammunition against them to stop publication of WaD is a bit off - even if technically legal.

The Mirkwood thing is frankly silly (as is the book, tbh) & the absolutely worst move they could have made as they've given the guy massive publicity & they will probably lose as the fact that the cover illustration is a 'bit like' a previous Tolkien book & that the name Tolkien is prominent on the cover is likely to be laughed out of court - did the lawyers take a look at the fantasy section in their local Waterstones? "Comparable to TOLKIEN at his best" etc, etc. on the covers of numerous fantasy novels. All they've done is make themselves look like they will drag people through the courts at the drop of a hat & lose public sympathy next time the really do have a case.

They have behaved stupidly over these issues & would have been better just letting them go - the point is none of these authors (or the author of the Book of Jonah volume) behaved in any way maliciously. Yes, they should have just let the books go ahead, because frankly whatever outlandish story comes out now about the Estate attempting to ban this or that is going to be given more credence than it will deserve. I read the badge story & thought (based on the things they have done recently) 'Well, they're at it again....' I wonder, did anyone - even among their staunchest supporters - doubt the story was true? And if they didn't & just accepted the story as true doesn't that say a lot about the effect of lawyering up so eagerly?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by davem

To top this catalogue of disasters off the cumulative effect of all this is that a story can be run stating that they have threatened legal action over the selling of a badge that mentions Tolkien's name - & even the Estate's strongest supporters believe that to be true based on the recent actions of the Estate & their lawyers.

Or perhaps based on your own vehemence on the subject:

Originally Posted by davem

*****AND YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE THIS*****

THE TOLKIEN ESTATE HAVE BANNED A BADGE (BUTTON) THAT MENTIONS THE NAME TOLKIEN http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/25...ate-censo.html

Yes. They have banned someone selling a badge with the name Tolkien on it.

I mean, you did announce it as a FACT, IN CAPITALS.