Mandos Thread: DEAD ONLY! - WW LXXXVI

[Nogrod]

Okay Agan, let's not start again this. And I think you can't afford that scorn anyway.

You try to give the impression you are reading all I have posted and even after that have no reason to believe me. Heh. How can you then say this:

Originally Posted by Agan

Forgive me if I overlooked your posts even though they shine so nicely with shoe-polish, but I failed to see you say anything about dropping the message sending plan.

How about these?

Originally Posted by me

So the baddies would love to tie our hands here to that more or less insignificant enterprise of sending them messages there. Remember, the wolves know both Lommy and Nessa are innocents. So with strictly following that rule of sending them messages, all the innocent villagers have gained when D6 dawns is that on D3 there were two innocents facing the gallows and everyone agreed to lynch them, baddies and innocents alike.

What a waste! And not especially helpful to the innocents.

We, on the contrary know that already (you'll know about Nessa when the Day begins). We have the knowledge and should start thinking how to best use our extra-votes.

.....

So if things go as they plan - which sadly seems more likely than not - they can overpower the village quite fast, in two Days. And reducing us to a message-senders the baddies make sure we don't try to get involved any other way in there during these critical two Days ahead. Thus letting them reign supreme there.

Originally Posted by me

We the dead should try and come up with the most accurate view of the situation there among the living as possible aka. who are the wolves and how they try to play it out as they need only two innocents dead?

The living should pull their act together and get at least one wolf on top of the lynching list (first or second most votes but not more than one vote's difference if second) - then we could try to help near the DL by giving the extravote to lynch the suspected baddie.

That should be the top priority - and the only thing that would immediately affect the game giving us more time. Otherwise we need to just pray for a hunter-kill. Sadly neither is totally under our own control: if the goodies don't give us a probable wolf for us to vote with a consequence (one added vote being enough), then no can do; if the wolves don't kill the hunter / s/he is not lynched, then no can do.

Okay. I'll cut it with that.

Just one last remark on the subject:

Originally Posted by Agan

But I'm so so sorry for you if you're actually the seer...

Which you clearly don't mean... I'm okay with that though. But you shouldn't be sorry just for me, but for yourself and all the other innocents who are threathened because you don't even try to look at things from a different (=truthful) POV.

I mean if you really read and thought of what I said and then said it's bad thinking and won't help us - pointing to the flaws etc., I'd be happy to stand corected and try harder to find the truth. But the fact that you wouldn't even consider, that you say there is no argument to make you change your mind, makes this all quite futile for me.


How about you fex. thought about my theory of the wolves and gave it a good scrutiny? Or came up with a better theory?

We need to have a general picture anyway if we wish to help the innocents in the end of the Day.

Messages or not... there probably will not be a next Day if we fail toDay.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading, with a question - did I miss something, Nog, that you're so sure BG was innocent? Is there any reason she couldn't be a wolf (and her wolf role given to a cobbler)?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Here and reading, with a question - did I miss something, Nog, that you're so sure BG was innocent? Is there any reason she couldn't be a wolf (and her wolf role given to a cobbler)?

I think Rikae said somewhere that she is now ordinary innocent and that her alignment didn't change. Not going to go back to find it though as I try to get back to reading the living thread.

[Thinlómien]

Okay

++Anguirel

*deep sigh*

That's all I can do for now. See you soon again.

[Nogrod]

the phantom is starting to speak on Boro not being a wolf... interesting.

I speculated earlier tp would sacrifice himself toDay for the wolves to win. But is he too proud for that after all? Remains to be seen...


But okay. I promised to look at the things from another persective than my theory. Well a decent opportunity has arisen with the revelations. So what if they are true?

Let's look at it from that POV.

Anguirel - ranger
Elron - hunter

the phantom - cobbler (from this I do not back away as I know it)

Leaves:

Boro
Glirdan
Greenie
Nerwen
Sally

So three of the last five would be wolves, the two remaining are either two innocents or an innocent and a cobbler.

Now the wolves will not lynch or Nightkill the hunter - so Elra will live.

The wolves seem not to be driving the "let's send the ranger to Mandos to get some info" -game, at least yet. Which might talk on behalf of Ang being true.

If we have a false reveal to out the real gifted I'd bet Elron more likely as ousting the hunter would be a better deal of the two. Anyway, back to the scenario they speak the truth.

So the wolves need to get one lynched from the two innocents of the last five, or the phantom.

It's hard for me to see Boro as an innocent after him saying the phantom is just a cobbler, but let's lynch him nevertheless. That's wolf-talk - and actually exactly the message the wolves would need to send to him: we know you're the cobbler, now we need to lynch you to get us safely into the Night - where they, thanks to the revelations would now know whom to not try. And it would be a wolf win.

This is no Day for lynching cobblers if the village wishes to face another Day.

But who else but Boro then?

I'll go back check the thread for votes & stuff...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine?

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

And if he's not, I think that's where he's headed with his "Boro, where are you? I neeeeeeed you!" thing.

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine?

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

And if he's not, I think that's where he's headed with his "Boro, where are you? I neeeeeeed you!" thing.

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

I hate it when he does things like that, but you're right, that would totally be him.

[Mithalwen]

It would be rather glorious....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

One way or another, this game will rank amongst the legends...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's hard for me to see Boro as an innocent after him saying the phantom is just a cobbler, but let's lynch him nevertheless. That's wolf-talk - and actually exactly the message the wolves would need to send to him: we know you're the cobbler, now we need to lynch you to get us safely into the Night - where they, thanks to the revelations would now know whom to not try.

I agree on this. (Regardless of what I think of you, I am going to be civil from now on. )

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Right, but cobbler/wolf would make sense in this context too, right? Or am I heinously missing something? If I am I blame being sick.

No I don't think so. I'm too lazy to look up the posts or come up with an explanation, just trust me on this.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine?

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

I thought about that too. It comes down to whether he's selfish enough to possibly harm the village just because he wants to stay alive. I'm more inclined to believe Nog than him though...

Originally Posted by the phantom

I can't speak to Sally's guilt or innocence, but I can tell you it's a better option than any of the gentleman on your list. Of course you may be a Wolf yourself so why would you bother listening, but so long as you don't plan on voting for a fellow I see no need for me to say any more at this time.

Erm what on earth is this about? Is he signalling to a suspected wolf, or is there a meaning I just didn't see?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Erm what on earth is this about? Is he signalling to a suspected wolf, or is there a meaning I just didn't see?

I think that's pretty straightworward. Cobbler phantom is convinced that Boro is a wolf and is querying Greenie whether she is as well & in that case signalling to her not to vote for him. Which means tp is to proud to offer himself? That is believable, but might actually make things harder for the wolves.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

That would be legendary indeed.

Sadly it is not that way.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You try to give the impression you are reading all I have posted and even after that have no reason to believe me. Heh. How can you then say this: How about these?

I was talking about changing the plan for today. As I saw it, you were dissing the plan in general. I wouldn't compare them like that.
And my not believing you has more to do with what you did when you were still alive. If you're the seer I have a piece of advice for you: cut down drinking and go to sleep earlier when playing werewolf. (I know this sounds like I'm just trying to be a prick but I'm not. You've been freaking weird in this game and I have a hard time putting it all down on RL reasons.)

Just one last remark on the subject: Which you clearly don't mean...

I mean it, I really do. I would hate to be seer!Nog right now and having to put up with stubborn people like me.

you don't even try to look at things from a different (=truthful) POV.

Have you looked at your posts from someone's point of view who doesn't know your role?

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Here and reading, with a question - did I miss something, Nog, that you're so sure BG was innocent? Is there any reason she couldn't be a wolf (and her wolf role given to a cobbler)?

Yeah, Rikae just said her new role is of the same alignment as her previous. It's somewhere in the living thread.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yeah, Rikae just said her new role is of the same alignment as her previous. It's somewhere in the living thread.

Right, but cobbler/wolf would make sense in this context too, right? Or am I heinously missing something? If I am I blame being sick.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I mean it, I really do. I would hate to be seer!Nog right now and having to put up with stubborn people like me.

Okay, understood, and here we can agree!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Have you looked at your posts from someone's point of view who doesn't know your role?

The last hours of D2 and the first hour of N3 disregarding, I think I have made perfect sense. And there is a shameful reason for that short period of lapse of self-control - even if it was aided by a quite heavy bandwagon that started already earlier - and had I went to sleep earlier I would most probably have been lynched anyway...

But if you took off that part of the game and just looked at what I have said before and after that... but no, you will not... So I'm not exactly sure if I'd have to say this is my fault afterall (even if I feel like that almost all the time).

Oh bugger, I promised not to delve into this anymore.

Back to work so that I can get to sleep.


Oh, another bugger: so Lommy voted, right? Not sure if that was wise...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But if you took off that part of the game and just looked at what I have said before and after that... but no, you will not... So I'm not exactly sure if I'd have to say this is my fault afterall (even if I feel like that almost all the time).

I've disagreed with some things you've said even before and after that but it might not be such a big issue if my trust in you hadn't completely crumbled during day 2. So yeah that I can take the blame for because it's just a (very dominating) part of my personality - trust once lost won't come back. (Fortunately we're only speaking in terms of this particular WW game. )

Oh, another bugger: so Lommy voted, right? Not sure if that was wise...

I don't know who Angu is going to vote, but at least we can trust it's an honest suspicion.