Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[Anguirel]

OK. A curse on my tentative appeal to people power. I'm out to supper in a minute, and I want the conversation to be more eventful when I do so. I shall try to encourage that process now.

Allow me to remove this brooding, dark red Feanorian toupee I've been wearing, and reveal my long, flowing, golden hair.

Ai na vedui Dunadan! Mae govannen!

I would appreciate the help of my hunting comrade. We may then properly assess their claim, among other things.

I defended the Grey Queen for as long as was within my power, and yet mourn her fall more bitterly than tongue can sing. (I did occasionally worry that Mith would think I was patronising for being so sure of her innocence, but fortunately our traditional friendship ensured there was little very odd about it.)

Oh and, finally, no more of this Angu nonsense. My name is Glorfindel, Lord of the House of the Golden Flower. Some people like to call me "The Beloved", though obviously I'm really modest and that totally makes me feel shy.

OK. Get debating, dowdy folk of Aegnor...

[A Little Green]

DAY 1 VOTES. Known non-wolves in italics, known cobbler underlined, living players bolded. Quotations on the reasoning behind the vote included, comments in brackets mine. Actual conclusions and such to come once I've posted the votes from all the Days and had a look at the big picture, if something such exists.

Lommy – Manwe
"He's been around and apparently able to talk but all he's said this far is banter. That does not look good in my books, no precious, not at all. Not that this is much to go on with!"

Legate – Nessa
"Of all the submarines, except for Mith (who now started posting), the one whose post was giving odd vibes to me."

Greenie – Lommy
"since she's the best lead I have. Usually I never suspect her and she's never evil. This time, on the other hand, she seems quite off to me. Nervous, playing easily, and over-emphasizing stuff (the cobbler paranoia, for example)."

Shasta – Nog
"Alright, after a quick read, the two I find most off are...

Phantom (surprise surprise) and Nogrod. Both seem, to me, to be trying to tell the wolves/cobblers what to do"

"I thought about voting Phantom, but his defense seemed reasonable enough - whereas Nogrod just seemed to latch on and say "Yeah, what he said!""

Agan – Nog (2)
"I agree with Shasta about Nog being suspicious"
(there probably were actual points against Nog in her earlier posts, but I didn't feel like taking the trouble to find them seeing as it's really not that relevant)

Nog – Shasta
"He didn't for a moment consider what I (and tp) were saying, but decided that it was a way to stage a suspicion: two people having similar opinions and wishing people to listen to them. Also I think he very cleverly decided to vote me because I wouldn't be here to talk back near the DL unlike tp.

What's more, I'm speaking for the good of the village in mind - and everyone reading back what I've said and thinking about it sees it is true. But if Shasta is a wolf, he knows I'm speaking against their interest."

Manwe – Greenie
"three posts before voting, general, casts a number of doubts. backing, moderate or poor."

Elra – Nog (3)
"This tension between Nogrod and Shasta worries me somewhat. Hrmmm."
"Partly because Shasta's overreaction makes him seem innocent. And if Nog's not guilty, then he'll be a helpful ghost."

Nessa – Legate
"Because he voted me. And he's useful/won't muddy the waters in the dead thread.

Dear heavens, someone shoot me. I just made the worst vote ever, didn't I?"

Fea – Nerwen
"Active enough to be useful in the next life, not so active I'll miss her desperately in this one."

Lottie – Manwe (2)
"Now, I'll have to vote and run, so, for his rather worrisome post..."

Boro – Legate (2)
(no reason I could find)

Glirdan – Lommy (2)
"Okay, I think I kind of see everyone's point on her now. She seems a little, wish-washy, for lack of a better word. And her reasoning for her vote for Manwe could just as easily be applied to about five other players, myself included. It seems like it's a throw away vote. But if that's the case, why not just say it's a throw away vote??"

Ang – Manwe (3)
"In contrast Manwe adopted a silent assassin position throughout much of today, then ended up joining the fray in a tone of preemptive snapping that reminded me of lupine false confidence I've seen before. He's much more likely to be wrong than right, but he feels the best I have to go on and less inevitably innocent than Nogrod."

Nerwen – Manwe (4)
(about Lottie pointing out Manwe sitting back and enjoying the fight between Shasta and Nog) "A good pick– he also doesn't appear to be C) actually trying to work out whether either of them is, in fact, a baddie (and in fact voted for Greenie)"
"So, it's Manwe and Nog tied at 3 votes each? Okay, then, that simplifies things–"

Mith – Legate (3)
"Suppose in the cause of residual sanity shouldn't risk a threeway tie and vote for the rather shifty Legate"
"Lommy did say she had a busy day and I don'tlike his trumped up "case" against me."

Phantom – Manwe (5)
"Given my lack of experience with them I have no thoughts on Manwe or Nessa, but given the format (the fact that everyone gets to keep playing) I don't feel at all bad about lynching them in order to save someone I feel better about."

So Manwe 5, Legate 3, Nog 3, Lommy 2, Greenie 1, Nerwen 1, Nessa 1, Shasta 1.

[A Little Green]

DAY 2 VOTES. Known non-wolves in italics, known cobbler underlined, living players bolded. Quotations on the reasoning behind the vote included, comments in brackets mine.

Lommy – Wilwa
"I'm aware this is not the most reasoned of all votes, but call it a gut-feeling. Read her post where she quotes Boro. It's just somehow smug, the tone, she gives the impression that she is slightly less confused than the rest of us, which she would be if she only entered the game after nice Nightly briefing by her pack. Also, the wolves have more reason to enjoy the confusion than us, because after all, their objective is just to slaughter while we really need to watch out for what we're shooting at."

Greenie – Nog
"Nog's reaction to Agan and Shasta being lovers looks fishy, can't pinpoint it but there's something really off in that post."
"Since I figured a Nessa vote would be pretty much a throwaway. A bad premise, but that's it."

Agan – Nog (2)
"I have seen enough. Nog if you're innocent I apologise, but at the moment I can't see that as an option."

Boro – Nog (3)
"Nog didn't address me about my suspicions of him. Notice what he did is say "well if you have a twitter impression, I've got a fb one" (paraphrase). Whatever that means I have no idea. And again instead of addressing me on my suspicions he tries to appeal to the rest of the village that I'm looking bad but he's not willing to get the noose around me yet. Waiting to see if there would be enough support?"
"Nog's now moved to threat alert Godzilla. I see nothing beneficial that can come from the insinuations living players are cheating. That's rather unsporty when there's no proof for it."

Glirdan – Nog (4)
"I'm not sure what I think of this, but somehting about it is not sitting right with me. Just because there appeared to be no last minute rescue-operation doesn't necessarily clear him of having been a Wolf. And looking back, there was the possibility of a wolf rescue mission, of none other then yourself. There were two votes, made by Ang and Nerwen, for Manwe that were made within ten minutes of each other. I doubt both of them are but I feel quite certain that at least one of them could be a Wolf with you. Very tempted to vote for you."

Sally – Boro
"I don't like some of the things I've seen regarding Boro, so he may get my vote"
"I don't have time to consider Nog's revelation right now, but I suspect Boro a bit as it is and I think he'll make a decent "rival" candidate, rather than a possible throwaway on Lottie."

Nessa – phantom
"I hate to say it, but I believe Nog. I don't think it would be particularly beneficial to false reveal as a seer at this point, and he seems worked up enough about the Lovers' playing that it strikes me as sincere."

Legate – Nessa
"Hm, brilliant. Now if Nog is bad, this looked rather bad too. And, I mean, even if Nog is telling the truth, once again, it does not make much sense to lynch Cobbler at this point. So I don't see why immediately following and wishing to lynch phantom.

So, in fact, this might bring me even to vote Nessa once again."

Fea – Nog (5)
"I'm just going to push it through. He can yell at me post-game if he really is the seer, but I think his behavior up to and after his reveal screams sinister instead of seer. While I find it logical that a Seer-Nog would dream of Agan and the phantom, it doesn't mesh well with his earlier behavior and it's too easy to see those choices as, "I can say these and nobody has any power to deny it except for the true seer (hahaha!) or the phantom (who nobody believes anyway)!""

Wilwa – Nog (6)
"Actually, I'm getting really tired, so I'm just gonna go for it."

Phantom – Nog (7)
(Not even trying to get a quote here!)

Lottie – Nog (8)
"Because, even if he turns up Cobblerian rather than Wolfish, it's better than an innocent (and I'm sure you can gather which version of 'innocent' I meant)."

Ang – Nog (9)
"oh Nowgli, as the Americans pithily put it, shut up already
I tried but I just couldn't resist a second longer"
(there were arguments here too but really, it's a mess trying to get sensible sum-up quotes on why people wanted to vote Nog after his reveal.)

Mith – Nog (10)
"Well lets hope he is a wolf because (and in the light of events my idea wasn't such a good one as I thought at the time) we are also losing BG for good or ill most like."


EDIT: adding the total tally for the Day: Nog 10, Boro 1, Nessa 1, Phantom 1, Wilwa 1
EDIT2: messed up the boldings and italics.

[A Little Green]

DAY 3 VOTES. Known non-wolves in italics, known cobbler underlined, living players bolded.

Nerwen – Nessa
"Nessa's vote looks the most questionable to me– it has that same air of apologising for itself as her Day One vote; also her earlier post looked an attempt to downplay the suspicicion against him (and indeed, re-direct it)."

Greenie – Lommy
"Because out of my current top suspects Lommy and Nessa, she's the one that I find a less likely innocent. She quite simply isn't herself at all, she's jumpy and nervous and making weird arguments."

Boro – Lommy (2)
"So lemme be more blunt (and if this comes off as condescending I'm sorry now. I'm not insulted by anything you've or anyone else said). You were wrong then, you're still wrong now. Only then I wasn't going to hold it against you, because innocents especially can be wrong, and I thought you were trying to enact some playful Day 1 revenge since the last two times you've been wrong about my role. But now I see you're actually serious and this is worrying me. However you interpret from me saying "I feel good about you, even if you are wrong about me" as me giving you a cobbler hint and thinking you're a wolf, I haven't got a clue. And now you've turned my clear cobbler hint to you, into some kind of hint saying I'm a wolf?

You say I'm fishy? Really? Yet you've completely ignored baseless suspicions that are piling up against me. You don't think that's fishy? You're more thoughtful than this, Lommy. I hope you're a baddie, because I would hope an innocent Lommy wouldn't stand for the snow job against me right now, even if she was honestly suspicious of me for good reasons."

Legate – Nessa (2)
(does not elaborate, so I'm going to assume the reasons are the same as the previous Day)

Lommy – Nessa (3)
"Suspicious stuff Nessa has done, according to the posts I just read:
- is wishy-washy, doesn't really say much, is just merisuing around and acting confused
- wants to deadify helpful people (huh?)
- wants to be grateful dead (we should grant her that, eh? )
- on Day1 votes knee-jerkily AND to deadify someone AND apologises for it"

Sally – Nessa (4)
"She initially struck me as evil, and that impression hasn't changed. Thus, death to her."

Nessa – Lommy (3)
"Because I don't want to die, and she has the closest number of votes. I do, however, feel like the cases against her are quite valid."

Agan – Boro
"Out of him and Lommy, he looks worse. It does look like he was trying to hint at her, and now that she's suspecting him because of it, trying to save his face."

Elra – Lommy (4)
"Because despite her endearing comparison of me to Pooh, she seems (to me, at least) to be playing oddly.

Besides, if it turns out she's innocent, she's one of those "helpful ghost" candidates.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a double-lynch. That would be bad. Ugh."

Mith – Lommy (5)
"For me, well she isn't as I remember her being when innocent but since that feelingy stuff isn't helpful to third party, it always rings alarm bells when people stay stuff which patently isn't true. It isn't plausible that she could have read Shasta's post 411 thoroughly and not been aware of the dead starting to vote. If she had read it and been a suprised innocent then surely she would have checked the rules. Feigning ignorance of the situation is a wolf tactic I ahve encountered before I find it really suspicious, Trying to make it some kind of personal attack is simply evading the issue.

I just can't believe she is on the side of the angels and if a baddie I would say wolf because the cobblers would need Shasta's info for their own ends. The wolves already know who is a wolf,"

Glirdan – Nessa (5)
"She's been very one line posts with no substance and very few thoughts of her own, mainly just tail-coating off everything that other people have said. I don't like it, and it's a tactic used to often by newbie wolves."

Wilwa – Boro (2)
"Even if this won't do much, if I don't vote I'll get modfired tomorrow (since I can't come on next Day). Just copying Agan..."

Phantom – Lommy (6)
"I wish to kill Lommy primarily because of the vibe she gave off with her Day 1 Cobbler pointing/instructions, and it seems to me she's continued to be unable to completely shake off that attitude because (so I think) she's a Wolf and thus finding Cobblers is the only help she can offer. And her comment about how Cobblers would have all sorts of brilliant stuff planned... just the way she said it made me think that it was almost a plea/demand "You'd better have some schemes to help us, Cobblers!"

Plus she's a Penguin."

Lottie – Nessa (6)
"I'm definitely leaning more towards Nessa. There are a lot of points where Lommy strikes me as quite innocent, and none where Nessa does so."

So: Lommy 6, Nessa 6, Boro 2

[A Little Green]

Aaaand DAY 4 VOTES. Known non-wolves in italics, living players bolded.

Ang – Lottie
"Loslote, on the other hand, calmly, securely and fully "within-universe", is I believe ingratiating herself with someone she knows is innocent. I don't think her less substantive defence of sally, on the other hand, rules them out as allies. It is empty, neither one thing not the other, a mental shrug designed to shake off interest in sally just as a wolf partner might wish."

Greenie – Sally
"I'm finding Sally rather fishy at the moment. Less so if she answers my questions. (Though that depends on the answers actually..) Her Day 2 vote was not given proper reasons for, she's held to that suspect since but still hasn't told why; also, her sudden reluctance at having her dead top suspect's role revealed looks bad to me."

Nerwen – Elra
"for looking an awful lot like a wolf-cub."

Sally – Lottie (2)
(not present in person so no reasoning attached)

Lottie – Wilwa
"I'll have to vote a lot sooner than I thought I would, so I'm going to do something rather silly/stupid and go for one of our quieter people. I'm not saying she's a sub - I know she's busy in RL and everything - but I don't have anything better at the moment, so..."

Glirdan – Ang
"Okay, that's it, ten minutes left and I'm going to vote and I'm going to stick with my gut on this one"
"I just feel more strongly about Angu being guilty then the rest of them"

Mith – Lottie (3)
"Don't suspect ang dn 't want to risk multi lynch on a feeble day."

Phantom – Elra (2)
"Out of Daughter and Sally, the former makes the most sense to me at this time, but I do admit that I haven't given Sally a proper read. If it does come down to those two, I will do my best to make myself more informed before I vote."
(Actual reasoning behind the vote remains a questionmark. Wanting to save Lottie after all, or what? Elaboration please?)

Elra – Boro
"Arghh! Okay. Shot in the dark."

So: Lottie 3, Elra 2, Ang 1, Boro 1, Wilwa 1, Sally 1.

[the phantom]

Completely forgot to address your point on double-lynches, Glirdan-

Doubles are completely different from day to day. On Day 1 they are evil. There are no kills to base suspicions on plus a high number of innocents, so you're basically begging for mass Ordo-death with a Day 1 double. Once you have actual suspects though and a lower population, take the risk if you really wish to. Sometimes they're downright useful (see Fea's first Rep game).

Anyway, got to run. Be back on as soon as I get to work.

[Glirdan]

Well now, I have no idea what to do and I have to vote relatively soon, made no easier by Ang's reveal as Glorfy. I am definitely more inclined to believe this reveal then Nog's. He seems to have done it out of pure frustration with phantom as opposed to Nog's reveal which was to save his own skin.

Phantom, I understand your frustrations with the double lynch now, but your phrasing on the Day afterwards still has me unnerved. However, your last long post in response to Angu has me thinking you more along the lines of innocent. The tone of it seems to me that you, like Angu are just greatly frustrated with everything to date, including Boro's incessant attack on you. I'm still unsure as to whether or not you're innocent, or maybe a really clever Cobbler (which I would not put past you), but at this time, I do not think I will vote for you.

And thank you Greenie for those vote recaps. It's nice to be able to look at them on one page instead of having to go back and look at them and the things leading up to it on about ten different pages. And now I'm going to take a good look at them and before I vote. Maybe something there will help me make my decision.

As it stands, my current candidates are Elra and Boro.

[elronds_daughter]

Thank you, dear Ang, for the reveal. This helps matters immensely.

Also, apologies for my lack of posts toDay - It's a Friday, hence I'm gone for 9 straight hours. And before that I sleep. So.

Haven't had time to read over Greenie's vote-analysis/condensation, but I'll get to that.

Phantom, to address your (much) earlier query about my vote yesterDay: I had had a particularly busy day, so my vote was entirely random. No rhyme or reason, other than finding someone who wouldn't die because of my vote, since I didn't have time to vote well.

EDIT: Oh, and:

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I would appreciate the help of my hunting comrade. We may then properly assess their claim, among other things.

That would be me.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Elra

EDIT: Oh, and:

That would be me.

Well, that makes things even more frustrating and I really wish I had more time to stay and post and look over this claim (as I'm leery of it, but it would make sense for a the Hunter to be a submarine), but I really have to vote and go to work as I am unsure as to whether or not I will be back in time for DL.

So, to go with my other remaining suspect

++Boro

Between him and phantom, I'm more inclined to believe in phantom's innocence. The way Boro has been steering the village (like phantom) has just got me on edge and unnerved. And his incessant attack of phantom almost seems as if it may be a Wolf trying to be rid of his most deadly enemy. Yes, it's true that both have been doing (the steering that is) it and quite possibly for their own gains, but as it stands (and I'm basing my vote pretty much off the past two days as I have not the time to properly look back), Boro just seems more guilty. Nothing in his posts as of late has me convinced that what he's been saying is for the greater good of the camp.

Anyways, I wish I could stay around and see further events unfold and make a more informed vote, but I have to head to work.

[the phantom]

Ah, a Boro vote, and a Daughter reveal, eh? Things are really starting now. Taking sides and whatnot... I do believe I'll give it some time before addressing all angles of this. But for now, since Boro got a vote, I will say that there is an important aspect of Boro's behavior we should not ignore, which would be his desire to kill me.

Those who have played many games with me, I ask you, what is a nearly guaranteed way to attack someone without success and put yourself at risk for a severe backlash? Answer: attack Phantom.

I mean really, I simply do not get lynched in traditional fashion. I was lynched with consent as part of a game-clinching mass lynch orchestrated partly by me in one of Fea's games. Then earlier in another one of Fea's game I was offed the final day because I was forced to vote early in a village which did not actually contain any WWs. The only time I've truly been lynched (yes, just ONCE) was back when WW first started on the Downs, in that infamous game I referenced earlier.

Boro has got to know that, especially given my positioning on him yesterday. Coming out guns blazing against me on a day like today is to me a sure sign of desperate (and mistaken) innocence or reckless Cobblery. He should know as well as anyone on this site that a Phantom-lynch is going to grind to a halt. It always does. Time and again and again... honestly given my track record I ought to feel a bit silly for getting outraged by people voting me. It never works.

And regarding Ang's reveal, I will definitely be accepting it without reservation, as it would be an indication that I'm not completely off on everything. (You were by far and away my prime Glorfy suspect, sir.)

Green- thanks for the votes. I ought to take a look at them.

[satansaloser2005]

I have no idea who to vote for now. >.<


I'll have to work up a short post, but it'll take me a bit. Back soon.

[A Little Green]

NOT VOTING FOR TODAY:

Anguirel - Believing his claim for now. Quite frankly, I see little reason not to at the time being.

Elra - Believing her claim for now. I'm still unsure of whether there is any sense in Hunter reveals in general, but she's certainly off the hook - and in a game of this sort (or any sort) fake-revealing as the hunter is not really a smart move anyway.

WHICH LEAVES:

Glirdan (Day 1 Lommy (2), Day 2 Nog (4), Day 3 Nessa (5), Day 4 Ang)
Easy votes, which unnerves me. He doesn't strike me as particularly evil otherwise, though; but since (apart from the Ang-vote yesterDay) he has always voted for someone I suspected too, I might be a bit biased here.

Nerwen (Day 1 Manwe (4), Day 2 no vote (or did I miss it?), Day 3 Nessa, Day 4 Elra)
Seems to have consistently voted for a less vocal player, though never mentions that as a reason. Maybe it wasn't. This could go either way (again). On one hand, it makes me think better of her that she isn't latching onto the attention-seeking loudmouths and giving them the attention (always a good strategy for a smooth wolf: the perfect way to slip by unnoticed); but then again, quiet players make for easy targets too.. My brain hurts. Non-vote-wise, I have little on her which is alarming. I'd check her posts if I had the time, which I sadly don't.

Sally (Day 1 no vote, Day 2 Boro, Day 3 Nessa (4), Day 4 Lottie (2))
Wasn't really around yesterDay which would make me hesitant to vote her toDay unless she has time to reappear properly (and continue to look fishy). Since she wasn't here yesterDay, though, my past suspicions haven't changed. Leaning evil.

the phantom (Day 1 Manwe (5), Day 2 Nog (7), Day 3 Lommy (6), Day 4 Elra (2))
He's another hmm. His tone strikes me more as an innocent Phantom - though if he's around, I'd like to hear his reasoning behind voting Elra yesterDay. If Lottie turns out to be a wolf (which I doubt; I thought she seemed rather innocentish) phantom looks worse, but for now he's leaning innocent.

Boro (Day 1 Legate (2), Day 2 Nog (3), Day 3 Lommy (2), Day 4 no vote (again unless I missed it))
I'm not comfortable with him. I didn't like that unreasoned vote for Legate on Day 1, even though he did turn out to be a cobbler. I don't know what to make of his row with Lommy on Day 3, either. On the whole, Boro is a bunch of messy questions in my head right now.


EDIT: x-ed with phantom

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Green

though if he's around, I'd like to hear his reasoning behind voting Elra yesterDay.

Because Lottie seemed such a Cobbler, and I didn't want her to be able to do the "Gotcha!" dance in my face after the game.

Green (and others, actually), I'd like to know what the latest time is you'll be around, because I'd like to know how soon any discussions need to be wrapped up by.

[the phantom]

Ang, a little whisper for you... I believe you had some right beliefs in your head on Day 2, if you can correctly recall the page you were on back then. Or at least we'll see if I was reading you correctly...

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Green (and others, actually), I'd like to know what the latest time is you'll be around, because I'd like to know how soon any discussions need to be wrapped up by.

I'm going really really soon (it's 1 AM here, and I've been up since 7 in the morning). Just basically voting and going..

[the phantom]

Well crap. You're leaving, and no one else seems to be around.

I'm particularly irritated that Boro is gone, as despite his already cast vote he could prove quite helpful to me.

Boro- IF YOU HAPPEN TO SKIM OR SCAN THIS THREAD, EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO POST, PLEASE DO SO ANYWAY. SKIP WORK. I DON'T CARE.