Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[Mithalwen]

Mind you if any wolves were around endgame last night they weren't going to go for my damage limitation exercise if BG were their absent comrade.

[Anguirel]

I want a bit more gossip on (you guessed it) the Dead Thread. Don't be shy, fair Luthien; what's going on in there? Are there any weird twists you're allowed to tell us about? What's the line-up, who are the duellists and why? Is everyone sticking to their old story?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I want a bit more gossip on (you guessed it) the Dead Thread. Don't be shy, fair Luthien; what's going on in there? Are there any weird twists you're allowed to tell us about? What's the line-up, who are the duellists and why? Is everyone sticking to their old story?

A bit more talking of any kind would be nice. I mean I know this is a day of rest but I am worried given that there seem to be a lot of quiet people - including some I remember as being noisier. Going ot check if stats back up my imaginings..

[Anguirel]

You're right Mith. Quite busy and exhausted myself, maybe that's a general problem. But I certainly went off for brunch expecting to come back to more action than this...

Boro certainly seems to spend a lot of time watching the Tudors, for example. I mean, I like a ripped bodice myself, but...this doesn't necessarily mean guilt, I suppose, just that the great complexity of this game brings on a certain sense of detachment. Fea, too, was generally not as vocal as you might've expected.

Whenever I've successfully caught wolves it's been to do with their actions and reactions towards each other. The focus so far has tended to be on individuals rather than dynamics and potential triumvirates. We need to up the pace, we really do, but I kind of want to put my head under the duvet with radio 3 playing gently in the background etc.

[Mithalwen]

You might as well dear, I doubt there will be much more going on for a bit.. the surviving Eastern European contingent are quiet.. small hours for Nerwen, don't know hwere everyone is but suspect stateside, so since it is too cold ot garden I will have a crack at a serious review of past days and see if I have anything significant when it islivelier. Or make marmalade. We could be in for another late one.. so a nap now might be a good tactical move.

Oh and it is quiet - I thought I had been quieter than usual and certainly I err towards many short posts than epic tomes but I have about 10% of the post count..

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Ang

Boro certainly seems to spend a lot of time watching the Tudors, for example. I mean, I like a ripped bodice myself, but...this doesn't necessarily mean guilt, I suppose, just that the great complexity of this game brings on a certain sense of detachment. Fea, too, was generally not as vocal as you might've expected.

Hey now that's only on Wednesdays.

I've reeled back my posting since we've last played. I found myself griping all the time about how many pages there were to read, but I was one of the biggest contributors to the page count. Hopefully, since your return and seeing my vocalness down, you see that my vigor and passion isn't gone? If it is then maybe a temporary hiatus would be in order after this game is up.

I was on last night to see Fea had been killed. Maybe I could have posted something, but I wanted to finish some important non-game related reading and by the time I was done it was passed midnight. All I would have said was something like...

Aww, have fun with death Fea. Don't argue with Nog too much, because if I ever die I don't want to have to read 8 bajillion pages and also try to keep up with the posting of two threads.

I didn't think that'd be much of a useful contribution, so decided it was bed time. For Fea's death, I can't say I'm really all that shocked. Usually she hangs around for a while because she can be a distraction, but with Agan most likely getting Glorfindel's protection, the wolves went for someone who wasn't getting suspected at all, and who may have been a major pain.

Although, I was not getting seer vibes from Fea at all, I mean she did tell phantom don't ask for her opinion, I don't know anymore than anyone else. I was getting the standard, I don't care what happens on Day 1, but I'm an innocent vibes from Fea. If Nog's a cobbler, I can't see the wolves seriously buying his seer reveal, and therefor I would think they would still be gunning for the seer each night.

By the end Nog was basically just launching off suspicions of anyone who was suspecting him and/or not believing his reveal. So I don't know why you'd say Fea's death makes phantom look better. If Nog's a wolf, than I think phantom is most likely innocent. However, if Nog was the cobbler, than to me, it doesn't say anything about phantom's alignment. It would help me out a lot to know Nog's role. I'm sure of one thing, he's not the seer, nor was he innocent.

[Boromir88]

Nothing else going on?

Ok, shower, food and hopefully that is enough motivation to be more productive.

Originally Posted by Me

By the end Nog was basically just launching off suspicions of anyone who was suspecting him and/or not believing his reveal. So I don't know why you'd say Fea's death makes phantom look better. If Nog's a wolf, than I think phantom is most likely innocent. However, if Nog was the cobbler, than to me, it doesn't say anything about phantom's alignment. It would help me out a lot to know Nog's role. I'm sure of one thing, he's not the seer, nor was he innocent.

As far as this, I should clear up that I'm in no way interested in voting for the phantom today or even if we did find out about Nog's role. That's outloud thinking that simply because Fea died and Nog looked evil, doesn't mean phantom looks better, or I'm not understanding how he looks better.

My main focus today will be those who seemed over-eager to believe Nog's reveal and suddenly try to get things turned around to not lynch him.

[Nerwen]

Pre-reveal votes:

Originally Posted by Lommy

++Wilwa

I'm aware this is not the most reasoned of all votes, but call it a gut-feeling. Read her post where she quotes Boro. It's just somehow smug, the tone, she gives the impression that she is slightly less confused than the rest of us, which she would be if she only entered the game after nice Nightly briefing by her pack. Also, the wolves have more reason to enjoy the confusion than us, because after all, their objective is just to slaughter while we really need to watch out for what we're shooting at.

Originally Posted by Greenie

++ Nog

Since I figured a Nessa vote would be pretty much a throwaway. A bad premise, but that's it.

Note: had been suspicious of Nogrod earlier, but more so of Nessa. Is change connected with this post of Boro's, where he threatens her with elevation to "Swarm of Killer Bees" if she votes Nessa? In this post, Boro is intent on pushing Nog, phantom and Glirdan as the only choices.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

++NOGROD

I have seen enough. Nog if you're innocent I apologise, but at the moment I can't see that as an option.

Originally Posted by Boro

Nog's now moved to threat alert Godzilla. I see nothing beneficial that can come from the insinuations living players are cheating. That's rather unsporty when there's no proof for it. We've all played long enough together, I would think that alone would make everyone trustworthy enough stick to the rules. It's no different than the fact I trust living players aren't discussing the game, while the game is going on with eachother (unless allowed by the rules).

++Nog

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Okay, I can't stand to wait any longer and will vote

++Nog

If anyone wants to see why, read post #303 for my reasoning. I really have to go.

Nogrod's Seer-reveal and reactions to it.

Originally Posted by Nessa

Aaand, Nog seems to be ruffling everybody feathers, and the whole situation makes me upset. This is more "aggressive" than I've ever seen him in my admittedly small number of games with him, but he doesn't seem to think that of himself. However, the distrust of the other players looks odd. Just plain odd.

Originally Posted by Sally

++Boro


I don't have time to consider Nog's revelation right now, but I suspect Boro a bit as it is and I think he'll make a decent "rival" candidate, rather than a possible throwaway on Lottie.

Originally Posted by Fea

Hm. Believe him and go with my Glirdy vote?

Or think he's a wolf, that any counter reveals would only help his case (and put the 'real' seer in danger), and that he's trying to get the Ranger to switch protections from the Lover to the false-seer so that both Lovers are gone for good?

Grrrr.

I don't know what to think.

Originally Posted by Boro

...and of course, with absolute no way to prove anything of what Nog claims.

*sigh* I'm really too grouchy to seriously think on this and don't look forward to the headache that's coming from it.

Agan and phantom are understandable choices for a Nog-seer, or any seer for that matter. And while I've also thought phantom was up to no good, I've continually felt worse about Nog after my first reaction.

Even with Shasta's death, I was telling myself not to buy "Nog is being set up argument" because Nog witnessed my wolf-pack to the exact same thing with Nessa-wolf in his game.

If you're the seer, Nog, you get the choice of what I have to eat. If a wolf or cobbler you be, to the death deserveth ye.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

I am inclined to believe him. This would be a rather crazy bold thing for a Wolf, or even a Cobbler to do, on only Day 2. And I can understand why he felt he had to reveal, what with the Lovers in the position they're in, and people seeming to want to vote for him. Now he'll be safe for toNight, and then he can dream of people as they die, and hopefully the Ranger lasts for a while and can provide us with a bunch of those dreams later on in the game (even if it's just dreams of dead players, that's still super useful, cause it'll be information that we can use to find connections between people).

So I believe him. And now I'm trying to figure out if we should bother killing Phantom? I'm inclined to not at the moment, he can't do much harm, so I would say we don't waste the lynch.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well thank you, Nogrod. I suspected something like that would be coming. My job is at least a bit easier. Now I merely have to decide whether you are Cobbler or Wolf.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I'm rather inclined to believe Nog - I've seen him get...meaner before as a Gifted. I don't think he can say that Shasta played badly, though. We'll find out in Endgame why the wolves killed him, and until then, it doesn't do much good to say it was all Shasta's fault. I mean, if he was at least trying to determine which specific people would have noticed the hints, that'd be one thing, but as it is, I can absolutely see why he attracted votes like a magnet.

That being said, let's hope Nog dreams us up a wolf toNight.

Note: Lottie and phantom argue about this for several posts, Lottle defending Nogrod.

Originally Posted by Mith

Why don't we do the obvious thing ang vote Blind Guardian? Time is short they are apparently about to be modfired. We lose an opportunity to lyncha wolf but we buy a little more time?

Originally Posted by Nessa

I hate to say it, but I believe Nog. I don't think it would be particularly beneficial to false reveal as a seer at this point, and he seems worked up enough about the Lovers' playing that it strikes me as sincere.

So I hope I'm right..

++the phantom

Because it's more likely than not that one of the two is a wolf-cobbler.

Originally Posted by Legate

Long post– concludes Nogrod is either a Seer or Cobbler and either way should not be lynched

Originally Posted by Legate, on Nessa's vote

Hm, brilliant. Now if Nog is bad, this looked rather bad too. And, I mean, even if Nog is telling the truth, once again, it does not make much sense to lynch Cobbler at this point. So I don't see why immediately following and wishing to lynch phantom.

Originally Posted by Legate

++Nessa

I think I have said all as for what I think about whom people should vote or not... preferably not any possible Cobblers; otherwise, sufficient to say, seeing either of my general suspects go will be fine. But I have to really go to sleep now, so, vote well, folks... and really looking forward to toMorrow...

Reactions to Agan's trap:

Originally Posted by Agan

Ha!
No I'm not. I'm Lúthien.

Originally Posted by Agan

++Nog

I'm just going to push it through. He can yell at me post-game if he really is the seer, but I think his behavior up to and after his reveal screams sinister instead of seer. While I find it logical that a Seer-Nog would dream of Agan and the phantom, it doesn't mesh well with his earlier behavior and it's too easy to see those choices as, "I can say these and nobody has any power to deny it except for the true seer (hahaha!) or the phantom (who nobody believes anyway)!"

Note: Hadn't seen Agan's post at this point.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Seriously?! You switched the roles of you and Shasta purposefully for the sake of having that sort of trap up your sleeve later?!

If so, then I could totally kiss you right now!

Originally Posted by Fea

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man, that makes me feel way better about the vote I just cast.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I've been away on a fairly riotous evening, but I'm back, I've read the thread, and I think I understand it. Good old Werewolf. Bad old sleep. (etc.)

Originally Posted by Elra

Dear me. I don't like any of this at all. Nog, the seer?!? What? Gah. He could very well be being truthsome, and tp etc. ganging up on him to distract. Or he could be trying to fool us all into going after tp, which people will undoubtedly be willing to do, considering phanty's verbosity. I simply don't know which faction is right. Both of them have been pinging my "uh-oh" radar. I may abstain today if this goes on much longer.

Note: curiously, neither Anguirel nor Elra seem to have noticed the most recent development.


Anguirel then corrects this oversight:

Originally Posted by Anguirel

no, there's no way Nogrod's telling the truth, is there. Logical bind. His sincerity relies on Aganzir being Beren. Aganzir would only lie about being Luthien were she a wolf or cobbler.

Brilliant. Artistic. Best stroke of play involving a lover I've ever seen, and I was a damn good one

Originally Posted by Wilwa

This is the bestest thing ever.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Actually, I'm getting really tired, so I'm just gonna go for it.

++Nog

Originally Posted by phantom

++ Nogrod

Originally Posted by Lottie

Oh dear. Now my head is all spinny. Clever Agan.

++Nog

Because, even if he turns up Cobblerian rather than Wolfish, it's better than an innocent (and I'm sure you can gather which version of 'innocent' I meant).

Originally Posted by Anguirel

oh Nowgli, as the Americans pithily put it, shut up already

++NOGROD

Originally Posted by Mith

Well lets hope he is a wolf because (and in the light of events my idea wasn't such a good one as I thought at the time) we are also losing BG for good or ill most like.

++Nogrod

Note: throughout this, Nogrod argued back at great length, without even once mentioning the "trap"– even though by then this was practically the only thing anyone else was talking about. It rely defies belief that Seer-Nog could have just somehow not noticed. (Just in case anyone was still doubtful.)

Other than that– well, I'm not sure how much use this has been (it certainly took long enough). While I think there should have been reason to doubt Nog's reveal, the fact is that people do tend to trust a "Seer", so I can't really say people like Wilwa and Lottie look bad just for that– although they were certainly at best uncritical. It's also true that Lottie really did go out of her way to defend him. Nessa's vote looks the most questionable to me– it has that same air of apologising for itself as her Day One vote; also her earlier post looked an attempt to downplay the suspicicion against him (and indeed, re-direct it). Other than that, Boro and Greenie's interaction early in the Day more be significant, though I'm not sure what it adds up to.

EDIT:X'd with Lommy and Elra.