Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

I have noticed some of you guys speak of people peeking at the dead-thread prematurely is more or less understandable and kind of obvious people do it (tp even admitted doing that, which actually fits well with my thought of him being the cobbler).

I don't follow that point at all. The fact that I clicked on the thread right when Rikae opened it and being made aware of my mistake thanks to her opening lines... How does that indicate anything at all?

Originally Posted by Nog

So let me strongly disagree and protest.

Keep away from it. Really.

Looking there is unsportsmanlike and bad gaming. And what's the joy of winning if you gain it by deceit?

Now here you're just agreeing with me. I said earlier that I gave my word not to read the thread and I intend to honor my word, and that I'm very paranoid about being put at a disadvantage because of it (i.e. I'll be completely ticked if I suspect it's being done).

Anyway... Back to your earlier post- You still haven't responded to what I said here. It seems to me you started off your suspicions of me by reaching big time and now you're building further assumptions based upon the opinion that you formed through the initial sloppy grasping.

[the phantom]

Ha! Thanks Agan! Basically you've confirmed in my mind what I had been thinking about the kill- that insinuating that Shasta was suspected by the Wolves to be any specific Gifted is somewhat insulting to Shasta and the intelligence with which I am certain he would play such a role. It made no sense to me that the Wolves would look for Lover hints from a Shasta-Lover, nor for obvious Seer behavior from a Seer-Shasta, for that would be to say that the Wolves thought him to be rather dense.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also, the way Aganzir behaved fits in nicely. She jumped on me for understandable, even if wrong reasons. And like lovers do, they don't accept their loved one made a mistake so it had to be someone else doing it. It looks quite obvious to me - on a level things can be obvious in a ww-game... Well, at least it makes sense.

I can only refer you to the post I made recently - my suspicion of you had nothing to do with Shasta's opinion. He was suspicious of the phantom, I wasn't. Really what are you thinking, that we're one mind split between two bodies? No. We just knew of each other's innocence, that's all.

And please consider what you say. You're seriously being rude.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yeah, but... Shasta actually did go out of his way to joke about being Lúthien.

Which depended on your being Beren (granted, the wolves obviously couldn't know it unless you're one yourself), and anybody who's ever played with you two shouldn't have thought there was something out of ordinary. I doubt they took it seriously, therefore I think his death has more to do with Nog (either getting rid of a possible seer or trying to frame him).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir to Nerwen

Which depended on your being Beren (granted, the wolves obviously couldn't know it unless you're one yourself), and anybody who's ever played with you two shouldn't have thought there was something out of ordinary. I doubt they took it seriously, therefore I think his death has more to do with Nog (either getting rid of a possible seer or trying to frame him).

Agan please... come out from this fatalistic despair that blinds you as your loved one has died. I share your pessimism as to the game right now, but let's fight.

Don't you see the 1+1 = 2 here?

Shasta joked being the lover with Nerwen - and then when suspected freaked out in a way only catching attention. What did the wolves think? That he was indeed the lover, his joking banter in the beginning just nailing it to them? (actually I didn't remember that but now as Nerwen reminded me about it, I can see it very well) And of course they killed him and not Nerwen as it was not clear which one or was ot true wiht Nerw, but the two unrelated things both pointed into Shasta being a lover.

May I remind you that on my first post on D1 I said the wolves would love to do away with the lovers and the ranger first and that those people should stay out of the fray?

Well sadly they have been succesful.

And I'm not playing dumb. I think I have not been this sharp in a long time. Which doesn't mean I claim to know things in particular but that I have a hang of how this goes and that my central beliefs have been proved right (like your innocence form D1).

But we're only in the beginning of this game - as this time the game continues on two levels anyway.


EDIT x'd with Leg & Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Anyway, I have to go and will try to be back by the DL. I need to sort my thoughts on people out more before I vote.

[Nogrod]

This actually makes me think very suspicious of Legate. After a lonf absence he decides to make this his point? Really? Someone with his brains and experience would have done differently being an ordinary innocent:

Originally Posted by Leg

I mean, since when has Cobbler been "innocent"? Don't give us that: Rubbish and more rubbish. No, I don't trust Nog, not after this on top of everything. This-is-weird.

Somehow I'm feeling this is not only about semantics... but let me make my understanding clear - and then you can judge the merit of this.

In a village, there are innocents and wolves. And then there are gifteds who are innocents but with a special role. At some time during the history of the WW in the 'Downs the cobblers were introduced, but they are counted as innocents as they are not wolves (the winning-tallies count the cobblers as innocents when calculating the winning conditions).

So speaking about an "ordo" means an ordinary innocent aka. having no role.

Speaking of an "innocent" means a non-wolf.

Gifteds and wolves are self-explicating.


But the real problem with Legate's post is not this. It is the fact he uses that false point as grounds of suspicion.

There may be different interpretations to the terms to be sure as there are different generations of werewolf-players around, but taking this kind of thing and stating it's "rubbish" and a reason to suspect someone feels pretty awkward, well plain evil.

I mean what Mänwe was is not a big thing toDay as we have no way of checking it toDay.

[Aganzir]

++NOGROD

I have seen enough. Nog if you're innocent I apologise, but at the moment I can't see that as an option.

I am not going to argue with you about if Shasta overreacted or not. Or if he acted stupidly or not.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

As I felt I was one of the scarce people trying to make points and really do something on D1 I could say I found his sudden suspicion and decision a mean one. And I must say he started it. He just made a bad decision there.

But my suspicion wasn't bad and/or mean?

if I feel like doing it after all this crap you guys load on me with no real points to back it...

I'd say you called it upon yourself. You'll probably disagree. Anyhow I find it more likely an innocent tries to help and says "I told you so!" afterwards. Nog is just being a martyr.

Would you be more specific here so that I could make it right? This really baffles me.

No. Or maybe yes but not right now. I'm getting tired of your aggression.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Actually– even though there's not much need for a cobbler to hint in this game– that post looks a lot like he's doing just that. "Bingo! Nice work, my wolfish mistress!"

That's a good point - not sure if it means anything, but I wouldn't be surprised. Lommy has been awfully eager to fish for cobblers, anyway.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And of course they killed him and not Nerwen as it was not clear which one or was ot true wiht Nerw, but the two unrelated things both pointed into Shasta being a lover.

You seem to know very much about why Shasta died. Now the question is, did Wolfrod spot a lover and is now irritated about nobody believing he did it? You know, the real reason for someone getting killed is often so obvious to the wolves they can't understand how others don't see it...

[the phantom]

My case against Lommy from yesterday (here) still stands today, and I said earlier today that in my reread I was feeling bad manipulation from Boro, and so now Nerwen's idea of linking them together as Cobbler & Wolf looks quite attractive to me.

So yeah- I'm still totally up for lynching Lommy.

As far as Nog.... *sigh* He felt innocent to me all day yesterday, and even today he doesn't exactly scream "guilt" so much as he seems... something.... odd. I think I and others have demonstrated some flaws in his attacks, and honestly I'm starting to get VERY irritated with the fact that he still hasn't responded to my initial questioning of his opinion on me, despite my prodding.

Meh, I'll decide later. I have an assignment due at 8:00 that I need to finish off. I'll look in periodically.

(edit: sp)

[Nerwen]

A change of subject–

Originally Posted by Lommy

Awww, thanks. Trying to imply you're a cobbler, though?

Actually– even though there's not much need for a cobbler to hint in this game– that post looks a lot like he's doing just that. "Bingo! Nice work, my wolfish mistress!"

Which is another thing– there's been a surprising amount of what looks like signalling. And yet, in this game, why bother?

Edit:clarification.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Actually– even though there's not much need for a cobbler to hint in this game– that post looks a lot like he's doing just that. "Bingo! Nice work, my wolfish mistress!"

Which is another thing– there's been a surprising amount of what looks like signalling. And yet, in this game, why bother?

Edit:clarification.

Hm, interesting point. As for "why bother", it is true that the Cobblers can perfectly well wreak havoc on their own, but possibly, if they can do it, it is still better to have a "union" with the Wolves, sort of a "know your ally" thing. But it is true that it can be equally risky for them - that such hints can be spotted. In general I'd imagine that as a Wolf trying to find a Cobbler or vice versa, one would try subtler hints. But yes, well, maybe this was one sort of a bit too exposed hint (unless, of course, Nerwen is here trying to frame Boro or Lommy - and if it came to me, I would think more likely about the former). But anyway, going for now, will be back later to vote at least.