Beren and the One That Got Away - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galadriel55 · 01-15-2011, 08:16 PM

I agree with Pitch, but I want to add that maybe Beren was in kind of a stupor from all of the things that just happened to him, and from feeling Morgoth's power and majesty. He must have been overwhemed, and the only thing in his ind would be to get Silmarils. If Beren would have had some time to recover, aybe he would kill Morgoth.
Also, it's easy to say "kill Morgoth", but its hard to make yourself do it. It's not only killing a superior, as Pitch said, but doing in the mightiest, ost powerful being. Wouldn't that fill you with, well, awe?
So there are two possible versions - that Beren willingly let Morgoth live, due to ethics, honour, mercy, or whatever other reason, and that he just didn't consider doing it for reasons mentioned above. It could be both - at first he was too shocked, and when he recovered his wits he decided to spare him...

Puddleglum · 01-19-2011, 02:37 PM

There may be a couple of more considerations here.

1) While it may be possible to unbody a Vala, it may not be so simple as it seems - even when he is asleep. Consider the following (humerous) sequence:

Beren: I'll get rid of Morgoth once and for all. <Stabs Angrist to the hilt into Morgoth's chest>
Morgoth: <suddenly waking and reaching out to clutch Beren's throat>: Silly boy. That's not where I keep my heart.

It's not even clear the knife was long enough to deal a death blow to an enbodied Vala.

2) The workings of Fate.

Fate prevented even so simple a thing as cutting a second Silmaril from the crown (causing the knife to snap). Most likely, Fate would have similarly (in some fashion) prevented the unbodying of Morgoth at that time - even had Beren thought to try.

Blind Guardian · 01-19-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Beren: I'll get rid of Morgoth once and for all. <Stabs Angrist to the hilt into Morgoth's chest>
Morgoth: <suddenly waking and reaching out to clutch Beren's throat>: Silly boy. That's not where I keep my heart.

.

And he was wearing armour, wasn't he? Probably would have woken up all of Angband getting to his heart!

alatar · 01-24-2011, 09:35 AM

Beren may have been able to stab Melkor, if he were able to overcome his own bewilderment and ethical dilemma. I don't think that it would have done any harm to the Dark Lord, however.

Melkor may have been pained by the wound, and humiliated, but not slain.

01-15-2011, 08:16 PM	#1
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,541	I agree with Pitch, but I want to add that maybe Beren was in kind of a stupor from all of the things that just happened to him, and from feeling Morgoth's power and majesty. He must have been overwhemed, and the only thing in his ind would be to get Silmarils. If Beren would have had some time to recover, aybe he would kill Morgoth. Also, it's easy to say "kill Morgoth", but its hard to make yourself do it. It's not only killing a superior, as Pitch said, but doing in the mightiest, ost powerful being. Wouldn't that fill you with, well, awe? So there are two possible versions - that Beren willingly let Morgoth live, due to ethics, honour, mercy, or whatever other reason, and that he just didn't consider doing it for reasons mentioned above. It could be both - at first he was too shocked, and when he recovered his wits he decided to spare him... __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

01-19-2011, 02:37 PM	#2
Puddleglum Wight Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 145	There may be a couple of more considerations here. 1) While it may be possible to unbody a Vala, it may not be so simple as it seems - even when he is asleep. Consider the following (humerous) sequence: Beren: I'll get rid of Morgoth once and for all. <Stabs Angrist to the hilt into Morgoth's chest> Morgoth: <suddenly waking and reaching out to clutch Beren's throat>: Silly boy. That's not where I keep my heart. It's not even clear the knife was long enough to deal a death blow to an enbodied Vala. 2) The workings of Fate. Fate prevented even so simple a thing as cutting a second Silmaril from the crown (causing the knife to snap). Most likely, Fate would have similarly (in some fashion) prevented the unbodying of Morgoth at that time - even had Beren thought to try.

01-24-2011, 09:35 AM	#4
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Beren may have been able to stab Melkor, if he were able to overcome his own bewilderment and ethical dilemma. I don't think that it would have done any harm to the Dark Lord, however. Melkor may have been pained by the wound, and humiliated, but not slain. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

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