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Old 01-10-2011, 08:30 PM   #17
Galadriel55
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchwife View Post
what exactly was Sauron's 'true name'? The problem with Mairon or Sairon is that both are Quenya names, given by the Elves, and as such secondary. His magical true name, the one that would give somebody power over him, would probably have been Valarin or in some even remoter Language of Creation (known only to Ilśvatar?), so there's little chance that The Mouth or anybody else in Middle-earth in the Third Age (except maybe the Istari) knew or remembered it.
I think that all the names of the ainur that we know aren't "true" names. Maybe they didn't have names as we see them before the creation of Ea. It's this abstractish thing that's hard to explain, but you can know a person without knowing their name. It's a bit like Entish, I guess - like Treebeard calles orcs a list of well-deserved names, but without actually saying any Name. Maybe Melkor was known as "the greatest after the greatest" (greatest meaning Eru). Many of the names of the ainur represent their role in making Arda, or in their "everyday job". Quite a lot of names have actual meanings, and are given/taken for a reason. However, there's a difference between a Name, and a description. For example, "Gilthoniel - Kindler of Stars" is Varda's job (ie her description), but it became one of her Names (probably because it was used by many Eruhini). A description could be applied to a number of people, but a Name is something unique. You don't need to know the Name in order to recognize a person, if I only know his/her "description". Also, each person has a certain assosiation in my mind, and I suppose in others' too: it's as if you show Treebeard an orc and he thinks right away...whatever he thought of them. As soon as you hear the description, you can link it with the assosiation, and know the person without ever using the Name.
Just to sumarize all my babble: I don't think that the ainur had actual Names before Ea. They probably knew each other by assosiations, and their Names were descriptions attached to them by Eruhini. Considering the fact that they could get a lot closer in thoughts than we can, this theory is very probable. It's not like a chat forum: *Hi Manwe, Yavanna speaking. Aule told me...* Suppose we could communicate with thoughts - I think I'd recogize a person by who he is, not his/her Name. (like talking with concepts, maybe?)

PS: This is my opinion, that's based on my thoughts. I haven't found a counterargument to that in those Tolkien books that I've read - which isn't very much.

PPS: The Ainulindale and Valaquenta in The Sil use the names given to the ainur later on, to save the trouble of speaking Entish with English words
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