WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird.

Come, now. Can't I be both?

There's other stuff that happened after I voted that invites scrutiny, mainly the Sally-wagon. What were you lot thinking?

[Rikae]

That Sally-wagon does need a look. It's the sort of thing that has me saying "innocents couldn't possibly blunder so badly" but then again, if all my years of WW have taught me anything, it's that innocents always can.

Still would like to look closer, though.

Kath's death was a surprise to me, as I was starting to suspect her.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

What were you lot thinking?

I think we had quite a good reason, she brought forward a suggestion that no innocent should ever bring up. The idea that the Cobbler could send in their own name and the wolves would then know who he is. When I first saw it I hoped that the large size of her post would maybe stop the Cobbler/Wolves from reading it too closely and getting the idea. But then Agan went and brought a lot of attention to it, guaranteeing that the baddies saw it (so the wolves may have assumed the name they received belongs to their Cobbler). We just need to hope the Cobbler didn't do it, and the Wolves have the wrong name.

Anyway, I can't come on much more tonight, and school starts for me tomorrow (and I have work immediately after school). I'll try to come back on again in a couple hours with more thoughts, and hopefully can pop on to vote tomorrow at school.

x'ed with Rikae

[Rikae]

Did she? I didn't even see that, but if she did, it's not as if it was her idea. Mac-cobbler did that in a game I think she was in as well as several others here. Hmm.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That's not to say that Zil's post didn't make me paranoid about him instantly, quite the opposite. Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird.

Actually, I got a good feeling about him from it. As a wolf, I would expect Zil not to draw quite that much attention to that. As an innocent, it's something I could see him doing - I get more of a "that's interesting" (I'm envisioning that the way Jack Sparrow said it ) type of feel than a "this must make me innocent" type of feel.

EDIT: xed with Rikae

[Loslote]

As for the Sally wagon, there was a lot of xing going on. For instance, at the time I voted, I thought only one other person had voted for her, and that a while ago. I also noticed a lot of people marking their cross posts, so it's possible that very few of us actually knew what we were doing. I don't think there was an intentional "let's all gand up and kill Sally" bandwagon, more of an "I'll vote Sally, and maybe other people will too, maybe not" bandwagon. If that makes any sense.

EDIT: xed with Skip

EDITEDIT: Legate's right; I crossed with Eomer, not Skip

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Initial thoughts: Ozban is an interesting kill as players tend to leave those who haven't played for a while alive - unless there's a good reason. Definite Seer hint in there, eh? Eh?

If you find that hint in Ozzy's post, I am going to give you a medal. (And then probably lynch you, since I can't see an innocent seeing a Seer see-saw see... something there.)

Originally Posted by Loslote

As for the Sally wagon, there was a lot of xing going on. For instance, at the time I voted, I thought only one other person had voted for her, and that a while ago. I also noticed a lot of people marking their cross posts, so it's possible that very few of us actually knew what we were doing. I don't think there was an intentional "let's all gand up and kill Sally" bandwagon, more of an "I'll vote Sally, and maybe other people will too, maybe not" bandwagon. If that makes any sense.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me (just hope that it is not so that all WWs voted for sally and x-posted at the same point, which would be terribly funny, but it's known to have happened at least twice in my last game) and also makes Lottie sound innocent.

But okay, now I am going to post this and if I haven't x-posted with anybody (or if I did but they said nothing of immediate interest to me), I will REALLY go to sleep!

EDIT: going No offence to the concerned one, it was a good enough post, but not needing an immediate comment

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, I've read through all posts of Kath and Ozban.

Kath's posts could hardly look less like those of a Seer. She mentions everyone in vague terms, and in her last post she suspects three people for (admittedly soft)in-game reasons. She votes Inzi, but... no - I don't buy it. Strange kill. Maybe they simply feared her wolf-hunting powers.

Ozban did speak some verses; wolves don't like that kind of thing - it gives them the creeps. Makes them think a gifted's at work. He also votes for Nessa, not for any very obvious reason.

I had already been getting a wolvish feeling from Nessa yesterday (hence my vote).

[Blind Guardian]

HEY LOOK! I'M STILL ALIVE! IT'S A MIRACLE!

Anyways, I wasn't really here yesterday, so I have no clue what happened. But, bandwagoning Sally...I'll be back.

[Rikae]

My thoughts after looking over the last couple decades:

Kath's post number 38 says "ANWOLFWITS" in the margin.

Sally's mention of the previous game indeed explicitly referred to it, I see, and she went on about it, and the
possible disadvantages of mentioning it, at some length. Nonetheless, no one suspects her or mentions it for
quite a while, including Wilwa, who responds to Sally's post an hour later with banter, not suspicion. Lommy mentions
her soon after as "fishy" but doesn't give a reason. Twenty minutes later Wilwa has problems with Sally's post (number
116), but these are a lack of explanation on her Kitanna-comment and "mis-representing" Skip's point about the seer.
In number 123, Wilwa puts Sally at the top of her list for:

the incorrect representation of what Skip said about the Seer, and the fact that she seems to be a bit all over
the place with dislikes and likes, either by going from liking someone to not, or some are just a "yay, this
person is shiny" or "no, I don't like this", without really giving any reasons. I know all that is a bit
superficial, and on it's own I wouldn't likely suspect her, but that isn't all I have against her....so yeah,
I'm really suspecting her right now.

And in 129 she votes her with no further explanation.

For previously (mostly) stated reasons.

"

So, Wilwa not mentioning the fact that Sally mentioned the possible cobbler-hinting, lest the cobbler notice.
Looks very shiny toDay, but I wonder why she wouldn't do her best to get Sally lynched if she thought it was such a good case against her, in favor of trying to hide something already in the open. Hers was the first vote for Sally, after all.

While I'm rereading, I'd like to know what Nessa means when she
says of me:

She got quite jumpy after being called out, and
hastily backtracked, which seems really strange to me, not to mention how much discussion and sidetracking
has resulted from her first post about Pitch. Perfect opportunity for a wolf.

I don't believe I've played with you before, Nessa, but trust me, I was nothing of the sort ("jumpy" when "called out"), and if I wanted to
come up with a case against Pitch, I easily could. That suspicion was based on nothing more than an uneasy feeling, as I said, and mentioned solely to gauge reactions. One of the reactions I was looking for was one like yours.

Ok, so anyway, in 151 Skip votes for Sally based on an "icky feeling" about her "misrepresenting his words", which
could be taken directly from Wilwa. Seems a little contrived.

Lottie votes for Sally on a hunch, which is the best reason so far! It's also, of course, a piece of cake to hide behind.

Lommy votes for Sally since it "might work out", then has second thoughts two minutes later. Seems an innocentish
waffle to me, but I'm unsure of the reasons behind her vote at this point.

Wilwa chastises Agan for mentioning the cobbler hint thing, gives it as the reason she voted for Sally.
All of this doesn't ease my mind about Wilwa: were she a wolf, she could still have done what she did. Sally was
in no real danger when she voted for her, making her a safe choice even as a suspected cobbler for a wolf.

[Pitchwife]

Ozzy not only voted for Nessa, he actually started the suspicion against her by pointing at her remark about "Rikae knowing things", and she was pretty much the single constant person he suspected all Day. If Nessa's a wolf, I think they could have thought he was the Seer. He also said once or twice he wouldn't vote/suspect Legate, which they could have interpreted as Ozzy had dreamt him innocent.

And sorry, Nessa, I don't quite buy this:

Originally Posted by Nessa

Oh wow, my Rikae post has been completely misinterpreted. The seer reveal has already been discussed as unhelpful to the village, has it not? My hint was that if she knows something we don't, it's suspicious. After all, the wolves all know something we don't: who to kill.

Can't really explain why, but it just sounds like retcon damage control to me.

The problem with this is, for a Nessa Wolfrunya to think Rikae could be the Seer based on Rikae's remark about me, I'd have to be her packmate, which I'm not (although it would explain why she defended me against it), so this theory collapses in itself. She could, however, still be the cobbler erroneously thinking Rikae had spotted a Pitchwolf - in which case I'd say she's not the prime priority toDay, as we still need to get a wolf to reduce the Night-kills.

(x-ed with Rikae herself)

[Rikae]

You know (I mixed her up with Lottie - oops) I never said Nessa was suspicious. I didn't think she was. I was admonishing her for what looked like a newbie error - apparently it wasn't, and she found me suspicious for "knowing something", which makes... no sense at all.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

The problem with this is, for a Nessa Wolfrunya to think Rikae could be the Seer based on Rikae's remark about me, I'd have to be her packmate, which I'm not (although it would explain why she defended me against it), so this theory collapses in itself.

Assuming you're not.

It's also possible she was a wolf looking for an easy lynch, and thought that I, with my mysterious and creepy ways, would be an easy target.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Initial thoughts: Ozban is an interesting kill as players tend to leave those who haven't played for a while alive - unless there's a good reason. Definite Seer hint in there, eh? Eh?

I'd read less into Kath's death, because the urge to kill Kath is completely understandable at all times. (I will have a look at Kath, of course)

Ok, not sure why certain people today find the lynching of Sally an obvious blunder - we had no idea who to string up! I didn't vote for her, but I'm not going to just assume that evil folk were involved in her slaying. Can people explain what was so wrong about choosing Sally (without referring to hindsight, naturally).

Also, this Wilwa-Agan argument right at the end of the day confuses me. Need to re-read, and probably have people explain it to me again. Slowly.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

I think we had quite a good reason, she brought forward a suggestion that no innocent should ever bring up. The idea that the Cobbler could send in their own name and the wolves would then know who he is. When I first saw it I hoped that the large size of her post would maybe stop the Cobbler/Wolves from reading it too closely and getting the idea. But then Agan went and brought a lot of attention to it, guaranteeing that the baddies saw it (so the wolves may have assumed the name they received belongs to their Cobbler). We just need to hope the Cobbler didn't do it, and the Wolves have the wrong name.

Actually, and as Rikae had already said, this thing had been used by Cobblers in several games, I believe, or I think I remember being in more than one. It was in fact one thing that was on my mind since the start of Day 1 and I was just waiting who is going to say that. I was quite surprised when by the time I have been around people actually haven't started tossing the idea around, I might have hoped that nobody is going to mention it.

But that said, I can see the reason of voting sally because of that. However (and once again when I am fresh, I have to take a look at the bandwaggon for her, to see how big it actually was and who was there), I am inclined to believe that some WWs might have very likely mingled with the crowd there.

And totally random addition, Rikae creeps me out.

EDIT: x-ed since my last once again, and I would like to see what "skip" you crossed with, Lottie

[Cailín]

Very interesting. Just read the entire thread. I thought Sally looked fairly innocent. Then again, she said she liked me and I am easily swayed by such things.

Looking at that particular bandwagon, Loslote looks shady: she planted suspicion against Sally from her very first post (based on a knee jerk reaction even though Sally really only said she could not contribute much) making it an easy vote with no substance at all.

I am not going to pretend that with so little evidence and with so many people I can already identify the wolves, so I am still very much in touchy-feely-guessy mode.

Right now, I have a good feeling about Legate, Lommy, Rikae and strangely enough about Inzil, though he seems somewhat paranoid. Reason tells me Boromir88, Eomer and Kitanna are innocent. Pure insanity tells me Aganzir probably is worth keeping alive as well.

The wolves are almost certainly A Little Green, Macalaure, Loslote and Nessa (confidence is key).

I hope this information will suffice for those interested in forming an opinion on my part in this plot or building a case against me. I will return later or tomorrow with something more substantial.