Ooh la la, Lúthien...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I haven't read The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, but you are probably right. Maybe Arwen just didn't want to commit herself to her choice right away as Luthien did.

Are you saying you have not read all of Lord of the Rings?

The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen is, as Puddleglum has pointed out, part of LotR, found in Appendix A, part v. It is a substantial part of the story, one of the few parts of the Appendices that Tolkien insisted upon, when a translation threatened to ditch them. It contains probably Tolkien's most poignant part of his characterisation of Arwen. It is particularly significant because it describes events in the Fourth Age, after the War of the Ring (whereas much of the Appendices pre-date the Fellowship and War).

So it's kind of crucial to any understanding of Arwen.

[Galadriel55]

I've read the translation LOTR, TH, The Sil, and Narn i Hin Hurin. The transators excluded half the appendixes, for some reason. I've read LOTR and whatever else was there many times. Just a few days ago I took out the original from a library, so I'm working on it , and I'll eventually get to The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

[Snowdog]

I'm grateful that the first time I read Return of the King it was a late 1950's hardback printing I checked out from the library and had all the Appendices. The tale of Aragorn and Arwen did seem that it should have been in the main tale somewhere, but I can understand why it wasn't.

Indeed, Arwen was likely not as bold and forward as Luthien was, but still....
Elf/Mortal one night stands are it seems eternal bonds.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I'm grateful that the first time I read Return of the King it was a late 1950's hardback printing I checked out from the library and had all the Appendices. The tale of Aragorn and Arwen did seem that it should have been in the main tale somewhere, but I can understand why it wasn't.

Well, we get the abbreviated version from Aragorn at Weathertop. To me, that's one of the draws of both The Hobbit and LOTR. There are references to older tales and events that give extra depth to the books, whetting the reader's appetite to learn more.

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Indeed, Arwen was likely not as bold and forward as Luthien was, but still....
Elf/Mortal one night stands are it seems eternal bonds.

And Arwen's daddy didn't even have to lock her away to keep her from her beloved.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And Arwen's daddy didn't even have to lock her away to keep her from her beloved.

He was related to Aragorn who was the High King of the Dúnedain. That was Elrond's stipulation.

Originally Posted by Rotk, Appendix A, The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen

She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the king of both Gondor and Arnor.

[IxnaY AintsaY]

I don't believe Inziladun was comparing Beren and Aragorn's respective verbal contracts with the respective fathers of their respective loves, but rather just making a joke about Arwen's apparent lack of initiative compared to Luthien.

[shadowfax]

Forgive me if I'm going in circles here as I admit to not having read every post in thius thread

But there is another relationship that interests me as well.

what about Morgoth and Luthien. When she danced for him, did she really just dance for him?

To come back to JRRT being Catholic, there is a Bible passage, and interestingly its one of the passages that Martin Luther and other people in the reformation decided to drop out, as such if you want to read it today you need a Catholic Bible.

In that story there is a young woman, not entirely dissimilar to Luthien, who dances for the king, flirts with him, gets him drunk on wine, and when he sleeps she draws her knife and cuts off his head and takes it (with the crown on) to her mother (I think). In the Jewish original, the sensual nature of her dance is apparently even less ambiguous but i haven't actually read that myself.