Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also I do disagree with the SoE's overpowering craving for power to "steer the lynch", especially early on. Unless they are really in trouble (and that probably doesn't even spell having one of them in trouble on D1), they have no wish to "steer the lynch" just for the sake of doing it. Well some personalities might wish to but, but they'd wish to do it whatever their role...

I see your point. I just put it out because I think that's how I would behave were I an opponent to the village. I wanted to give people my perspective on the candidates. I'm very ignorant, though, all in all, as to people's behavior.

Ex-posted with the most hightly esteemed Phantom.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

So, you want people to wait and not do anything until they have a hunch, but how can anyone get a hunch if no one has done anything yet? Have I explained properly where I'm coming from here?

First thing: I don't like your cynicism, mister. Like, if our chances of succeeding in spotting an elf on Day 1 are slim, we shouldn't try at all, or what? Second thing: I did not advice anyone to not vote, I just want to advice everyone to vote with care! Voting is the only means we have of winning this game, and I'd prefer to see it used well. Third thing: surely you are not suggesting that the only thing we can read something from is a vote? One can get a leaning on people's alignments from a load of other things than their votes! I agree that Sally and Lottie did stir up the discussion, but their votes were still not reasonable.

[A Little Green]

Wilwa (she turned up at last, yay!) and Nog are making sense. Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?

Looks like it's my bedtime now, and since the deadline is 4 AM my time I won't wake up to vote then.. So I'll vote

++ Nerwen for rep

Because she is independent-minded and clever and if she's innocent she can do a lot of good in that position - and if she isn't, a Nerwelf is, in general, such a sly case that forcing her into the spotlight wouldn't be such a bad idea.

See you all on the second half of the Day! My participation will, in all probability, be quite crappy since I have an insanely busy day tomorrow, but I'll do my best.


EDIT: x-ed with Wilwa, who continues making sense.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?

Eurgh? I assumed it was some inside US-Downers' joke, but it would have never occured to me that it would have something to do with me. ??? Okay, whatever...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power. Well I don't like the idea of just a couple people having a lot of power (and maybe a couple amoung them having even more). I'd rather have half the people have all the same amount of power. That gives us more stuff to analyse, and makes it harder for the SoE to get too much power (unless, like all 4 of them get voted as representative, but at least if they don't have more pull than the other reps it wouldn't be so bad). Did that make any sense?

Definitely good idea, except for one remark perhaps - at least if people are voting close to DL, there is the possibility of some crossposting, so somebody might actually get more votes in the mess. But I think generally the guideline is good, and unless the SoE misuse this mess completely to push in more power for somebody, then okay (but then again, even they could not do it unsuspiciously).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And remember, many wolves might also wish to stay out of the fray and not want to get elected as the reps will receive the toughest scrutiny on D2.

That may be actually true, especially given that it is their votes which are going to be analysed probably the most in the end. Although of course, it depends, and what phantom says, holds too:

Originally Posted by the phantom

My thinking, Nog, is that the SoE may as well steer the lynch, as people are just as likely to suspect them if they don't (the whole bluff/double-bluff thing). I mean, why not vote each other as rep a good bit? It'd give them more lynch control, and they wouldn't necessarily be caught at it as many would pass it off as "too obvious".

I think both are true to a certain extent. It would probably depend on the particular SoE, what they do. If there are some really strong personalities, they can go for the Rep even of their own initiative, with the hope to sway the votes. But then, flying under the radar is another well-known tactic. I think it is equally likely to meet both - we'd have to see from future actions of the SoE in the game.

EDIT: x-ed with Wilwa and Greenie

[Mirandir]

So... I read like a page and a half. Now have to go to a meeting, class, and work. Am grumpy about this fact. Would like to know what's in it for me if vote phantom for rep. Read more at work and hopefully make legitimate contribution.

[the phantom]

As far as the Emperor's cat comment, I think it was a reference to me generally disliking cats and being allergic to them.

Originally Posted by Mira

Would like to know what's in it for me if vote phantom for rep.

Um... Let's see here... How about this? I shall purchase a Dallas Cowboys shirt and make a regular habit of going to Wild Wings during their games and loudly supporting them. Oh, and have I mentioned how pretty you are?

Greenie, in response to post #93-
No, no, by all means, give it an effort. My cynicism is not meant to discourage effort. Rather I'm saying it's not proper to be too upset with those that try something a bit different on the first day, as that is exactly the time to do so. It serves a purpose and may turn out being a better vote than many cast at the deadline.

By in large I'm saying that jumping on Sally and Lottie for their votes is far too easy, and ignoring the time in the game at which we stand and the various strategies that are viable at this stage. As someone else agreed with me earlier, it actually would not be a disaster to vote incorrectly at this point anyway, so it doesn't matter at all that the girls didn't have suspicions when they voted. Not to mention that suspicions will be weakest at this point anyway even were they allowed time to form. Also how would early suspicions form without early action provided by the votes that people are criticizing? No, votes aren't the only source of suspicion, but the other sources draw directly from votes (reactions to votes), and so votes can be said to be the ultimate source for nearly everything since much discussion is about votes. And then of course the late-day suspicions of "responsible" voters could well prove wrong (they're likely to in fact), so really what's the difference?

People are making far too big a deal about something that isn't bad at all when you place it correctly in context.

Anyway- I'm off for a bit.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Um... Let's see here... How about this? I shall purchase a Dallas Cowboys shirt and make a regular habit of going to Wild Wings during their games and loudly supporting them. Oh, and have I mentioned how pretty you are?

Deal. And I'm holding you to that.

++phantom for rep

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Deal. And I'm holding you to that.

++phantom for rep

*Sigh* you could be lynched for that and I'm not going to stop it, even if you're probably an innocent just bribed with Cowboys' presents.

I was going to say wilwa and Nogrod's same proposals was a good idea. We should still probably stick to that. Give 2 votes to someone, making person a rep, and stop it at that. Phantom will just have 3 now, no reason to trash the reasonable proposal.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So I think I should slowly start deciding about my vote for the representative. Let me see...

Boro - okay, but slightly weird with some of his opinions, I don't like his radicalism so much. If I want an opponent for the phantom, Lommy, who has already one vote, is enough, and Boro said something like that he wanted to vote her, which is fine by me
Celuien - not seen her around?
Foley - looks sensible, looks innocent, unless she is really so sly as to fly under the radar, but somehow I can't imagine it very easily. Not sure if she wants to be a Rep, if it came to that, she could get my vote, on the other hand, if she is somewhat busy or whatever, not sure if she will have as much insight as for me to vote her.
Glirdy - rather in the bacgkround. Actually, if somebody is under the radar, it is him. Might vote him for Rep just for the sake of that, to sort of bring him to the light, but then again, I'd prefer to vote somebody I trust more. Hmm... although... if I wanted to get more info about him... I'll think about it.
Greenie - actually seemed reasonable, around and seeing into things; might be one option
Izzy - very little to work with, though seemed sensible - might be one option if she shows more
Kath - nothing
Legate - that's me, that's me...
Lommy - see Boro. I probably will not vote her myself, as I think also that quite likely somebody else might vote her (like Boro) and she already has one vote.
Lottie - nope, she is a questionmark with the phantom-support and not seeming to be very much around anyway
Mira - nothing to work with this far
Nerwen - had posted some reasonable stuff in the beginning, has one vote already, might be an option, although I would probably prefer to read more from her before I'd do that
Nog - with his somewhat lessened participation not sure if I want to entrust him with the task, although on the other hand, with what he kept saying about the SoEs not wanting to become elected, it would be interesting if he was one of them and... okay, but probably not voting him. I get very little reading on him (while, again, that might also be a reason to vote him...)
Phantom - no. Said that before.
Rune - nothing particular against, but there is still the "buttering up" possibility. I don't feel like voting him much.
Sally - like Lottie, at most might be good for experiment, but not really wishing to vote her, especially if she is barely around.
Shasta - hmm... actually no real knowledge this far...
Steve - was he?
Vanilwa - had a few good points, might be one of the candidates
Zil - very random for voting, also see Glirdy.

So there would be several options - will think of them and see also what happens here, if anything new that will help me decide.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Boro
...
If I want an opponent for the phantom, Lommy, who has already one vote, is enough

Let's not keep up this "representatives are tp and the force to counterbalance him" -stuff any more.

Let's see tp being one of the many representatives where his power is like one sixth or seventh of the total - and that's it. Please.


EDIT: x'd with Mira... *bangs head to the desk and cuts the power off from the computer frustrated*

[Nogrod]

So how is it... tp has two votes (enough) and Lommy and Nerwen have one each?

I have nothing against those three ending up as representatives. Basically I have nothing against more or less ayone becoming a representative at this stage of the game: it would be interesting to learn more about everyone.

So for me it comes down to deciding whether to vote for someone I tend to trust a little, who is loud and enigmatic, who is very careful, who is hiding in the shadows...

I think you will take care enough loudmouths get to be elected so I'll start a new trend then.

++ Izzy for representative

She is very good and I always have hard times reading her. I'd like to see her contribute more, already at this stage of the game and not only when the numbers have dwindled.

See you on the latter half of the Day. Be sure to elect enough representatives!


X'd with Leg & Steve

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

it will require some really odd things to happen if the next lynch is on someone who was not a representative toDay.

Well, that's interesting. Than perhaps the SoE will not want to be reps, maybe it'll bring too much attention to them, while non-reps can just glide on by. But then again of course they want to be reps, that gives them power, which the Elvies wants. So....my point? I think we need a good balance of out-spoken people, and quiet people to be reps. Especially quiet people, force them to talk since they'll have the extra obligation, that could limit the chance at having too many 'under the reindeers'.

I'm choosing to not talk about the Puddingtom to the extent that everyone else is, because Day 1s are always about him . I don't like Sallycakes and Lottiepop's votes, because they really seem like throwaways and should have gone to someone they atleast semi-trust, and they both showed up later, so they didn't *have* to vote early. But at the same time it didn't surprise me, cause they enjoy doing crazy things (they will not be receiving rep votes from me though, I don't want them just tossing their precious lynch votes around like jelly beans). I hearts Lommy's first post, and I feel quite good about Legate, Boro and Nog at the moment.

I need to get *some* homework done while I'm still feeling attentive. Then I'll be back.

edit: x'ed with Greenie, who I also feel ok with, and added name-bolding

edit 2: the word 'throwaways' there isn't what I was trying to say, I meant more like random or thoughtless

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Well, that's interesting. Than perhaps the SoE will not want to be reps, maybe it'll bring too much attention to them, while non-reps can just glide on by. But then again of course they want to be reps, that gives them power, which the Elvies wants.

I think they'll probably want to be reps as late in the game as possible. However obvious that may sound, my point is that on Day 2, the reps will be under less scrutiny than on Day 1, and so on, because there will be more other things to go on (in terms of suspicion). So, as well as being more important later on, I think the Elves will want to reps later because they'll have less focus on them.