WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Kath]

Are you kidding Inzil? I missed yesterDay due to busyness and ... ahem ... drunkenness. But I caught up on yesterDay and I know the rules - I'm not about to cause the player list to drop any further after toDay's happenings with a Shirriff AND our true Seer gone. The latter of which by the way ... what?! What was that about? We clearly have a maniacal Zeus or one who has decided they're not on the side of the village.

Plus my vote is obvious in light of Tum being proven right about Nog.

++RIKAE

I do need to read over things in more depth, but I'm around for the next three hours to do that - I just wanted to vote now so as to avoid any possible modfiring!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kath

Are you kidding Inzil? I missed yesterDay due to busyness and ... ahem ... drunkenness. But I caught up on yesterDay and I know the rules - I'm not about to cause the player list to drop any further after toDay's happenings with a Shirriff AND our true Seer gone. The latter of which by the way ... what?! What was that about? We clearly have a maniacal Zeus or one who has decided they're not on the side of the village.

Plus my vote is obvious in light of Tum being proven right about Nog.

++RIKAE[/B]

I do need to read over things in more depth, but I'm around for the next three hours to do that - I just wanted to vote now so as to avoid any possible modfiring!

As my last sentence indicated, I didn't conclude that you must be a wolf. As a matter of fact, looking over things myself the last half hour or so has given me another possibility about you.

[Kath]

I can't keep up this not doing lists thing so I apologise but that is what is coming in the next couple of posts as it will help me work out where we are right now. And hey it might be useful to some others too!

Known roles:
Blind Guardian - Aphrodite so Lover.
Boro - Hermes and false Seer (by default).
Eonwe - mortal.
Tum - Apollo and true Seer.
Nog - Poseidon.
Lottie - Artemis so Hunter.
wilwa - Hera so wolf and Lover.
Mac - Hercules so Shirriff.
Rikae - Ares so wolf (by Tum's dream).

Which means we have left:
Zeus - who is apparently not on the side of the village. Had the choice to kill, protect, see the role of a player or have an extra vote. Chose to kill the true Seer. Now powerless - should be an innocent from now ... apparently not.
Hestia - mythomaniac who is either true or false Seer.
Hades - wolf and Lover.
Persephone - Lover.
Demeter - protector of Persephone.
Hebe - only remaining Shirriff and so now just an innocent.
Hephaestus - wolf.
Pan - ranger.
Dionysus - cursed ... who as far as we know has not been turned?
Eros - Hunting Guardian.
Athena - Goddess of Wisdom.

Soooo, those who are actually evil and intending to harm the village:
Hades
Hephaestus
Persephone (possibly)

Those who potentially may be harmful to the village:
Zeus ... apparently.
Demeter
Dionysus - as they know they're the cursed they could choose to be on the wolves side.

Those who are definitely on the side of good:
Hestia - by now they must know if they're the true or false Seer and either way they're on the side of the village.
Hebe
Pan
Eros
Athena

Unknown roles:
Mira
Inzil
Nienna
Nerwen
Folwren
Lalaith
Greenie
Shasta
phantom
sally
Kath - putting myself in so this list tallies with the number of roles.

So, looking at those unknowns next.

[Nienna]

Foley:
24 – Lottie talks a lot, Nerwen seems sensible, Wilwa seems all right
30 – Doesn’t want to lynch Phantom; thinks Rikae’s idea of lynching the seer sounds dangerous
84 – Hunch that Kath and Nog are NOT among the lovers but if they are then they aren’t innocent lovers (for discussing the role)
96 – Votes Steve for trying but not succeeding at being natural

Day 2
420 – Doesn’t think we should kill Nog or Phantom

Day 3
756 – Thinks Nog and Nerwen (and their interaction) is suspicious but Nerwen more so than Nog (for gut feelings); thinks Tum looks suspicious; thinks Phantom still innocent; opinion of Sally uncertain; Mac’s distrust of Zil and Wilwa stands out.
834 – Can’t bring her self to vote Nog because she doesn’t mistrust him. Votes Lottie instead.
841 – Talks about possible nightly PMs. This post is the strongest that makes me think she’s not a wolf. I don’t know if a wolf would be daring enough to talk about possible PMs openly on the thread

Day 4
872 – Isn’t sure why people are sure Nerwen’s not a wolf I’m wondering the exact same thing… I’m actually becoming rather suspicious of Nerwen just from reading other people’s posts including Wilwa’s and Rikae’s; wishes Greenie weren’t gone so she could explain her suspicion of Mac

Conclusions: I’m thinking that she is probably not a wolf. Her posts and ideas regarding roles and wolves just don’t seem like stuff a wolf would say. This isn’t to say she’s not a very sneaky wolf but I don’t think so.

[Nienna]

List:

Inoocent:
Nienna

Leaning Innocent:
Foley
Sally
Mira
Kath

Unsure:
Zil
Lal
Greenie
Shasta
Phantom

Leaning Wolf:
Nerwen

Wolf:
Rikae

[Kath]

Right, couple of disclaimers. This takes hours. And with Day 1 being 8 pages (!!!) I'm not going to have time to do more than that. Now, you might say, why not look at later Days. Well, because I think that on Day 1 people are slightly less cautious - feeling more able to hide in early banter. By Day 3 with some roles revealed by kill/lynch and just generally fewer people hiding is not so easy. Also, we know the lynch toDay, so I have toMorrow to continue this. (Listens for groans of despair at that statement!)

Mira - thinks the hints being talked about were probably not serious. Repeats that Boro couldn't be Lover-hinting if Zeus. Refused to vote for possible hinters given what she said earlier - fair enough. Boro and Eonwe turned out to be innocent though, so this could be good cover for Nerwen if she and Mira are both wolves.

Inzil - "Singling out possible gifteds? You're clearly a wolf." To Rikae. Probably joking but possibly not if also a wolf. Supported Nog on suspecting Eonwe. Says Boro doesn't sit right, suspects Mac just because, and wants to vote BG for no substance. Pretty much going with the top talkers/suspects of the Day. The BG vote was the same lines as mine, I just wonder about it because Inzil seemed to have more reasoning for a Mac vote.

Nienna - ignores phantom, praises wilwa (for what?). Says Eonwe 'slipping' bears watching. Votes for Eonwe in case he's the Cursed. Well it's consistent.

Nerwen - please, tell me for my sanity, are you typo-ing Folwren every time deliberately? Hmm, and about Zeus says: "Well, I'd hope so, but some people will have it that a surviving Lover has automatically lost anyway" - so could be someone who if Zeus would want the village to lose. Defending herself against Mac using 'he only suspected me after I suspected him'. Didn't think Eonwe was the Cursed. Voted Nog as wasn't happy with the BG/Eonwe bandwagons.

Folwren - Day 1 felt bad about Lottie, thinks Nerwen sensible and wilwa seems alright. Defends phantom and suspects Rikae. Not sure Foley would mention packmates at all ... which makes me think fairly well of Nerwen. Voted Eonwe as he seemed to be trying to hard to be innocent.

Lalaith - under the radar to me. But: "many seem to have taken too freely of Ganymede's cups" - Dionysus hint? And: "particularly as Zeus himself is not whole-heartedly allied to the village" - our odd Zeus? Voted Boro because the vote 'could throw up something useful'. Need to check if that was ever explained - as in, did it?

Greenie - said wouldn't vote wilwa or Foley Day 1 and thought Nerwen innocentish. If Greenie were a wolf this would make me think Foley and Nerwen probably weren't. List post, only suspicions were of Mac, voted him. Clearly proven wrong now ... but then Gifteds often get confused for wolves.

Shasta - thinks Nerwen and Nog both innocent, Boro wasn't hinting, and votes Eonwe in case he's the Cursed. By the way what was the bolding on 'light of my life' about?

phantom - may not be our odd Zeus given his comment to Boro about not feeling too free about where to place loyalties. Also as when talking about lynching the Seer he says: "Quite right, it will keep him from leading us astray with his false dreams later on. Good idea!" And as he was talking with Boro about his Seer hints I'm fairly sure this means he thought Boro the false Seer. Not sure he'd be so blase about offing the true one. Plus he says: "If Hera dies, then isn't he at that point on the side of the village." Thinks Mac and Nerwen innocent. Also doesn't agree that Eonwe is Dionysus.

sally - hints toward maybe being an ordo. So you know what I hate? A post with 3 paragraphs about not being able to post properly and an edit ... that then contains an unexplained vote. Just saying. Anyway, votes BG without explanation - did we get one later?

Ok, posting this now. Thoughts in addition to those I've noted as I've gone to follow.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Nerwen - please, tell me for my sanity, are you typo-ing Folwren every time deliberately.

Nah, I kept reading her name that way. I only just realised the proper spelling. Sorry, Foley.

Now I just want to correct a couple of things you've said here:

Originally Posted by Kath

Hmm, and about Zeus says: "Well, I'd hope so, but some people will have it that a surviving Lover has automatically lost anyway" - so could be someone who if Zeus would want the village to lose.

No. People– starting with Rikae, I might add– have been reading evil plots into the fact that I said this– but at the time, the rules about the Lovers hadn't been clarified– that was the point of the discussion. I was worried that if Hera died, and Zeus had no way to win, he'd take it out on the village. (Which he did anyway, for some reason– and no, I wouldn't have done that, if it was me. I like winning.)

Originally Posted by Kath

Defending herself against Mac using 'he only suspected me after I suspected him'.

No– because he didn't start suspecting me until other people went after him because he'd said I could be Hades, then did nothing about it. Do you see the difference?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Those who potentially may be harmful to the village:
Zeus ... apparently.

Er... you call what he did "potential"?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Kath

Are you kidding Inzil? I missed yesterDay due to busyness and ... ahem ... drunkenness. But I caught up on yesterDay and I know the rules - I'm not about to cause the player list to drop any further after toDay's happenings with a Shirriff AND our true Seer gone. The latter of which by the way ... what?! What was that about? We clearly have a maniacal Zeus or one who has decided they're not on the side of the village.

Plus my vote is obvious in light of Tum being proven right about Nog.

++RIKAE

I do need to read over things in more depth, but I'm around for the next three hours to do that - I just wanted to vote now so as to avoid any possible modfiring!

Ping! Is this too obvious to be a Dionysus hint? (Like I should talk about lack of subtlety. )

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Ping! Is this too obvious to be a Dionysus hint? (Like I should talk about lack of subtlety. )

Why, yes, I should say so.

Kath's fairly experienced, isn't she? Any one who's experienced and who has the Dionysus role would keep quiet, lest the villagers suspect them and kill them beforet he wolves get to them. I mean, honestly. Who would throw it blatantly out there? "Kill me! Kill me!" No one is quite that sacrificial, even if they do want the villagers to win.

-- Foley

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Why, yes, I should say so.

Kath's fairly experienced, isn't she? Any one who's experienced and who has the Dionysus role would keep quiet, lest the villagers suspect them and kill them beforet he wolves get to them. I mean, honestly. Who would throw it blatantly out there? "Kill me! Kill me!" No one is quite that sacrificial, even if they do want the villagers to win.

-- Foley

The cursed isn't evil until they're turned. We've not been informed that they're turned, so they're in effect still an ordo. Thus, it's not really "kill me, kill me".

Thus, if Kath is Dionysus, we shouldn't lynch her....yet. We need to keep an eye out for them, though, because if the wolves turn them we'll be in a bit of a pickle.

However, Kath's other posts have been appearing wolfish to me the more I look at them. She could be dropping fake Dionysus hints (or she could have thought Dun was Dionysus and was trying to hint to him....

POST INTERRUPTED. PARENTHESES BE....BE DEADED.

Kath's totally a wolf. No joke, she has to be. She hinted at Dun with the drunkenness so he'd know she was a wolf when he got turned last Night. Except he wasn't turned, he was killed.

PLEASE tell me this makes sense outside of my head?!?!

Crap. I have to go or I'll be late back to work. But I'm totally exploring this later.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Kath's totally a wolf. No joke, she has to be. She hinted at Dun with the drunkenness so he'd know she was a wolf when he got turned last Night. Except he wasn't turned, he was killed.

PLEASE tell me this makes sense outside of my head?!?!

Sally, why would she need to let him know she's a wolf?

Originally Posted by The Rules

Dionysus – God of Wine – Dionysus is the Cursed. If the Wolves choose to Night kill him, he will join their ranks. Only the player and I will know that they are Dionysus. I will not reveal the Cursed until the end of the game.

Are you taking this to mean that Dionysus wouldn't be made known to the other wolves even after being turned? I'm not getting that from it.

That said, it does look like a hint. I'd say too obvious to be real, except for the liberal use of the subtlety mace we've already seen throughout this game.

–While we're on the subject, what's your story, Sally? With all the not-exactly-subliminal hinting, I mean?

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Sally

The cursed isn't evil until they're turned. We've not been informed that they're turned, so they're in effect still an ordo. Thus, it's not really "kill me, kill me".

Thus, if Kath is Dionysus, we shouldn't lynch her....yet. We need to keep an eye out for them, though, because if the wolves turn them we'll be in a bit of a pickle.

Wait, what? It seems to me that if the villagers know who Dionysus is, the wolves also know who he is, and therefore the wolves would know their next night's kill. In order to save the village from being plagued by another wolf, the villagers may as well kill thek nown Dionysus as wait until he's turned into a wolf - if, that is, they don't know of any real wolves to kill.

But I kind of see your point...provided we can find a real wolf, killing Dionysus would be pointless and would be killing an ordo.

However, I stll don't think Kath is Dionysus. A wolf? Maybe. I'll go read her posts.

Originally Posted by Sally

Kath's totally a wolf. No joke, she has to be. She hinted at Dun with the drunkenness so he'd know she was a wolf when he got turned last Night. Except he wasn't turned, he was killed.

PLEASE tell me this makes sense outside of my head?!?!

No, it doesn't. Not really. I'll look into it.

-- Foley

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Kath's fairly experienced, isn't she? Any one who's experienced and who has the Dionysus role would keep quiet, lest the villagers suspect them and kill them beforet he wolves get to them. I mean, honestly. Who would throw it blatantly out there? "Kill me! Kill me!" No one is quite that sacrificial, even if they do want the villagers to win.

False. It is in fact probable that Dionsysus wishes to be turned, and thus he would have no qualms about shouting it out. And if we lynch him, so what? It's not as if that hurts the Werewolves. Dionysus is a bit of a Cobbler I'd say. And again, Dionsysus may already be dead, so it doesn't do us much good to worry about him.

And just a reminder- the last post I made *points up 7 posts* is by far the most useful thing that has been said today. You'd better not ignore it for too long or it will be obvious that you're not particularly interested in figuring out who people are.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And just a reminder- the last post I made *points up 7 posts* is by far the most useful thing that has been said today. You'd better not ignore it for too long or it will be obvious that you're not particularly interested in figuring out who people are.

Well, I've found who Mac referred to. I'll look now to see who Greenie thought it was....

Ah. I see your point. I think I kind of understand. Persephone had to find out who Hades was, but Hades already knew who Persephone was. Therefore, no matter how early in the game Persephone was killed, Hades could still take a revenge kill - he didn't have to wait until he found her, I mean.

If Nerwen is indeed Persephone...killing Nerwen would be a very bad thing. But how are we certain that Greenie knew who she was talking about?

-- Foley

[satansaloser2005]

Back to work.

I'll be back in....six hours or so, and will hopefully have a guess at everyone's role, blah blah blah. Oh, and Phantom?

You just lost the game. Jerk.

*hums Rick Astley, toddles off for now*