Galadriel

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Erendis

Curse Wikipedia as the only source of informations!

No,apart from those two you have mentinned,I at least cannot recall another one citing that rape would lead an Elf to abandon its hröa.

In that case it may be an example of the kind of thing that has led me to abandon Middle-earth-based fan-fiction. There's plenty of complaints about winged Mary Sues riding pink unicorns– but their critics can be annoying too. Some will lay down the law about what is, or isn't, "canon" on the basis of out-of-context quotes, or downright weird interpretations that I suspect would have startled Tolkien himself considerably. (Did you know Elves don't need to eat?)

...Anyway, I think this has got seriously off-topic. Sorry about that.

[elbenprincess]

That is not really on topic, but I read somewhrere that Feanor might have been in love with galadriel, I read a quote: "Feanor was in love with galadriel..." but I don´t know if is was really stated in one book. Does somebody know more, was it stated that way somewhere?

Could that be, I mean he asked her three times for a strand of her hair and if he really just wanted to have it for a gemme, than he just could have stolen it, but that seems somehow like a courtship behavior, and therefor it wouldn´t help him to steal it. And he even beged for it. (feanor and beg(g)ing?

I think it´s interesting to imagine how the history of ME could have had changed if she just had give him some hair or at least had been nicer to him, I imagine her at her time in valinor a little arrogant, at least towards feanor, and that must had upset him.

[Galin]

Hmm, it was noted that Feanor wedded Nerdanel while he was still in early youth, and I get the impression at least (I haven't really looked at all the relevant texts here) that possibly he was married before Galadriel was born.

Anyway, according to later texts Feanor wondered at Galadriel's hair... but many likely did

As an artist of such amazing calibre, Feanor's asking for Nerwenian hair might be due to his fiery, creative zeal. At least that's how I thought of it.

[elbenprincess]

Yes, he wedded her long before artanis was born and yes, I think you are right, he probably just wanted the hair to create something, otherwise it would have been really creepy...creepy half uncle

I wonder if it was difficult for artanis to come to the fore of the rebellion and all that. If we look at Arwen, we see that Elrond still, although she was 3000, has a lot of say in her life. I wonder if artanis father tried to hold her off (she was even younger than 3000, she was about 1030) or if he just accepted his destiny.
And even long time before this events, I suppose, she was not the "normal" girl, we know she was strong in mind and body and all that...and maybe her parents had a lot of trouble, if they wanted her to behave like a "normal" girl. I guess especially among the eldar ( women no right to become queen...) such a behavior was probably not really approved.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by elbenprincess

And even long time before this events, I suppose, she was not the "normal" girl, we know she was strong in mind and body and all that...and maybe her parents had a lot of trouble, if they wanted her to behave like a "normal" girl. I guess especially among the eldar ( women no right to become queen...) such a behavior was probably not really approved.

Well... I don't think that would be the case "especially" among the Eldar– it's word-of-author that, whatever their rules on inheritance, they weren't otherwise all that rigid about gender roles:

Originally Posted by Laws and Customs of the Eldar

In all such things, not concerned with the bringing forth of children, the neri and nissi (that is, the men and women) of the Eldar are equal– unless it be in this (as they themselves say) that for the nissi the making of things new is for the most part shown in the forming of their children, so that invention and change is otherwise mostly brought about by the neri. There are, however, no matters about which among the Eldar only a ner [man] can think or do, or others with only a nis [woman] is concerned. There are indeed some differences between the natural inclinations of neri and nissi, and other differences that have been established by custom...(etc.; goes into detail, which is too long to quote here.)

[elbenprincess]

I have a question about the phiole of galadriel. It is said, that the phiole holds the light of earendils simaril (the star). How was it possible for her to catch the light?Maybe it wasn´t herself?
Somewhere I read that Yavanna tried to heal the trees with the light of such phials, she asked Aule and Manwe (i suppose in Aman they were able to catch the light) but they (Manwe and Aule) were very stingy, they wouldn´t give away much. So I suppose it is not easy to catch the light, and I think it is cool that galadriel was able, if she did it herself? But maybe this was also a present, like the elessar she get from Yavanna?
Did Yavanna gave Olorin the elessar especially for galadriel (I know at some point she was supposed to give it another person, but at this point, was it meant to be for galadriel) ? If it is the case, it is really amazing that a VALAR!!! thinks of galadriel that way

Another little topic, maybe not that important, but it annoys me a little that everywhere you read that arwen was the beautifullest elven in ME, actually it is stated, that galadriel was the mightiest and fairest=beautifullest of the remaining elves in ME. Although it is said that Arwen was the likeness of Luthien!!!
And it was said that Galadriel was the fairest of all the house of Finwe? Does that mean of all the noldor in Aman, did they all belong to the house of finwe, cause he was their king?

For me it seems that tolkien intended galadriel beeing at least the second beautifullest beeing ever, maybe even as beautiful as Luthien (we know he often changed his mind, maybe in his later years he changed his opinion about luthien a little.

Beatifullest
1. Luthien
2. Galadriel
3. Arwen

Greatest
1. Luthien (but IMHO Galadriel is greater)
2. Galadriel
3. Feanor (haha defeated by two girls)

Sorry for the rant, couldn´t resist.

[morwen edhelwen]

The point? Well, actually the point is that whatever happened to Celebrian when she came into contact with the Orcs could have caused her to die, according to something Prof. Tolkien wrote. She didn't... but it still had a terrible impact on her and there was a possibility that she wouldn't have endured it, although all it meant, for her, was that she sailed West to be completely healed. Am I right? Ignore this if the thread isn't active... -Morwen

[Galin]

Originally Posted by elbenprincess

Did Yavanna gave Olorin the elessar especially for galadriel (I know at some point she was supposed to give it another person, but at this point, was it meant to be for galadriel) ? If it is the case, it is really amazing that a VALAR!!! thinks of galadriel that way

Hmm, Gandalf ultimately does say: 'This I give to you from Yavanna', so maybe, but why she would need it to keep things from fading, when she can use Nenya at this point in time, is difficult to say however.

Perhaps Tolkien meant this version of the tale to be considered false by the reader (referring to: 'In ages after there was again an Elessar, and of this two things are said, though which is true only those Wise could say who now are gone.' from earlier in the text), or externally, maybe Tolkien just made a mistake in a rough draft that happened to survive for us Tolkien fans.

This text is, in any event, a very rough draft, mainly in the first stage of composition.