Cirdan's appearance

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Maybe it was all that sea air.

[Galin]

Also, Tolkien's late note 'it was a characteristic of all Elves to be beardless' could be an indication that he intended to alter Círdan's description in some theoretical future edition of The Lord of the Rings...

... or, it could represent Tolkien simply forgetting what he had written, and forgetting what he had published actually, or both. Or, since his point concerned Men who did not live nearly so long as Elves (obviously), his meaning could have been quite general -- since Men could arguably not hope to reach whatever age constituted even one 'cycle', the general beardlessness of all Elves was still a solid factor here.

In other words: all Elves were beardless, until they reached a certain age -- but an age in which it did not matter with respect to the beardlessness of Men with Elvish heritage.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Personally, I have always rationalized Círdan's aged appearance as a combination of true antiquity (awakened at Cuiviénen, or at the very least born there) and stress of a sort. There is a presumption that Círdan wanted to remain in Middle-earth, and while that was in part true -- he chose to stay to search for Elwë, and agreed to Ulmo's behest that he stay because he would be needed -- I don't believe it erases the possibility that he nonetheless longed to sail West, to Aman. Events of the First Age were stressful, all by themselves, and Círdan participated in many of the battles. He fostered Gil-galad, and one could assume that part of why he remained at the end of the FA was because his foster son chose to remain. Comes the Second Age, longer than the First, with a lot of stress in which Círdan is again a participant -- and at the end of it, his foster son is killed in combat with Sauron, who though defeated is not destroyed. Why didn't Círdan sail then? He'd lived through a lot of death and destruction, probably had his heart broken several times -- and yet he stayed. In the Third Age, he hands off Narya to Gandalf (do we know what effect such a sacrifice, even willing, has on a Bearer after they have borne the ring for over a thousand years?). After that, he becomes more reclusive. We know he sent troops to fight against the Witch King, but I don't recall if he went with them. He sends others, like Galdor, in his stead to important councils. Why? It seems to me that something happened to make Círdan more detached from the affairs of ME during the TA. For all we know, he is feeling a powerful version of the sea longing, and may well have been feeling it since long before Galadriel was even born. How many years before that pressure and other stress take their toll on an Elf's physical appearance? We know that psychological stress ages humans before their time; I think it not impossible that it might also do the same to an Elf. Círdan's beard may be an outer manifestation of his inner feeling that he has become bound to the mortal lands of ME; though he longs to sail, he feels he cannot until his purpose there is fulfilled -- and he has no idea when that might at last come to pass.

This is just my rationale. Tolkien never said any specific of this sort, but to me, it makes sense in light of those things we do know for certain about Círdan.

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Personally, I have always rationalized Círdan's aged appearance as a combination of true antiquity (awakened at Cuiviénen, or at the very least born there) and stress of a sort. There is a presumption that Círdan wanted to remain in Middle-earth, and while that was in part true -- he chose to stay to search for Elwë, and agreed to Ulmo's behest that he stay because he would be needed -- I don't believe it erases the possibility that he nonetheless longed to sail West, to Aman. Events of the First Age were stressful, all by themselves, and Círdan participated in many of the battles. He fostered Gil-galad, and one could assume that part of why he remained at the end of the FA was because his foster son chose to remain. Comes the Second Age, longer than the First, with a lot of stress in which Círdan is again a participant -- and at the end of it, his foster son is killed in combat with Sauron, who though defeated is not destroyed. Why didn't Círdan sail then? He'd lived through a lot of death and destruction, probably had his heart broken several times -- and yet he stayed. In the Third Age, he hands off Narya to Gandalf (do we know what effect such a sacrifice, even willing, has on a Bearer after they have borne the ring for over a thousand years?). After that, he becomes more reclusive. We know he sent troops to fight against the Witch King, but I don't recall if he went with them. He sends others, like Galdor, in his stead to important councils. Why? It seems to me that something happened to make Círdan more detached from the affairs of ME during the TA. For all we know, he is feeling a powerful version of the sea longing, and may well have been feeling it since long before Galadriel was even born. How many years before that pressure and other stress take their toll on an Elf's physical appearance? We know that psychological stress ages humans before their time; I think it not impossible that it might also do the same to an Elf. Círdan's beard may be an outer manifestation of his inner feeling that he has become bound to the mortal lands of ME; though he longs to sail, he feels he cannot until his purpose there is fulfilled -- and he has no idea when that might at last come to pass.

This is just my rationale. Tolkien never said any specific of this sort, but to me, it makes sense in light of those things we do know for certain about Círdan.

This is good. I too think Cirdan was intended to be discretely Elder. Tolkien provides confirmation for a portion of your reasoning, from HoMe XII, Last Writings--Cirdan:

This is the Sindarin for 'Shipwright', and describes his later functions in the history of the First Three Ages; but his 'proper' name, sc. his original name among the Teleri, to whom he belonged, is never used. He is said in the Annals of the Third Age (c.1000) to have seen further and deeper into the future than anyone else in Middle-earth. This does not include the Istari (who came from Valinor), but must include even Elrond, Galadriel, and Celeborn.

Cirdan was a Telerin Elf, one of the highest of those who were not transported to Valinor but became known as the Sindar, the Grey-elves; he was akin to Olwe, one of the two kings of the Teleri, and lord of those who departed over the Great Sea. He was thus akin also to Elwe, Olwe's elder brother, acknowledged as high-king of all the Teleri in Beleriand, even after he withdrew to the guarded realm of Doriath. But Cirdan and his people remained in many ways distinct from the rest of the Sindar. They retained the old name Teleri (in later Sindarin form Telir or Telerrim) and remained in many ways a separate folk, speaking even in later days a more archaic language. The Noldor called them the Falmari, 'wave-folk', and the other Sindar Falathrim 'people of the foaming shore'.

It was during the long waiting of the Teleri for the return of the floating isle, upon which the Vanyar and Noldor had been transported over the Great Sea, that Cirdan had turned his thoughts and skill to the making of ships, for he and all the other Teleri became impatient. Nonetheless it is said that for love of his kin and allegiance Cirdan was the leader of those who sought longest for Elwe when he was lost and did not come to the shores to depart from Middle-earth. Thus he forfeited the fulfillment of his greatest desire: to see the Blessed Realm and find again there Olwe and his own nearest kin. Alas, he did not reach the shores until nearly all the Teleri of Olwe's following had departed.

Then, it is said, he stood forlorn looking out to sea, and it was night, but far away he could see a glimmer of light upon Eressea ere it vanished into the West. Then he cried aloud: 'I will follow that light, alone if none will come with me, for the ship that I have been building is now almost ready'. But even as he said this he received in his heart a message, which he knew to come from the Valar, though in his mind it was remembered as a voice speaking in his own tongue. And the voice warned him not to attempt this peril; for his strength and skill would not be able to build any ship able to dare the winds and waves of the Great Sea for many long years yet. 'Abide now that time, for when it comes then will your work be of utmost worth, and it will be remembered in song for many ages after.' 'I obey,' Cirdan answered, and then it seemed to him that he saw (in a vision maybe) a shape like a white boat, shining above him, that sailed west through the air, and as it dwindled in the distance it looked like a star of so great a brilliance that it cast a shadow of Cirdan upon the strand where he stood.

As we now perceive, this was a foretelling of the ship which after apprenticeship to Cirdan, and ever with his advice and help, Earendil built, and in which he at last reached the shores of Valinor. From that night onwards Cirdan received a foresight touching all matters of importance, beyond the measure of all other Elves upon Middle-earth.

[Galin]

I'm not even sure why Gwindor was so changed, as in 1497 (YT) Maedros was put to torment as well (before his time in the steel band), and ultimately maimed as well. Although I suppose JRRT could come up with something here.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galin

I'm not even sure why Gwindor was so changed, as in 1497 (YT) Maedros was put to torment as well (before his time in the steel band), and ultimately maimed as well. Although I suppose JRRT could come up with something here.

I recall that the Silmarillion indicated that Maedhros having resided in Valinor was a factor in his recovery, and though Gwindor was a 'prince' in Nargothrond, I don't know that the same could be said of him.

[elbenprincess]

"It would seem to me fairly notable if Elves who remained young looking for thousands of years in Middle-earth also had a phase of looking aged. And here we have opportunities to describe, or even briefly mention (to make clear, if so), some phase before fading, or describe that fading includes the bodily ageing of Elves."

Then it would be interesting to know at whitch point (when) the faiding will start and if there a differents between Aman and ME.

Did I understand that right, the body ages, then the fea will overhelm and consume the body and the body is sort of invisible but can appear in the form of the former, young body, if the elf wants?
And so the body becomes untouchable? But what about the last battle (dagor dagorath) I think that at this point all the elves would be consumed by their fea, but how can they fight? And it is said that the elves would fight.

For me, the destiny of the elves sounds terrible One can just hope that an elf has to be 50000 years old and older until that happens.

Thats an interesting quote:
"But in Aman, since its blessing descended upon the hroar of the Eldar, as upon all other bodies, the hroar aged only apce, and the Eldar that remained in the Blessed Realm endured in full maturity and in undimmed power and spirit conjoined for ages beyond our mortal comprehension" (Morgoth’s Ring "Myths Transformed").

This gives me the impression that this "fading" is more the problem of the ME elves. Of course the eldar in valinor are affected too, but not as radical as for the ME elves.

[Galin]

elbenprincess wrote: Did I understand that right, the body ages, then the fea will overhelm and consume the body and the body is sort of invisible but can appear in the form of the former, young body, if the elf wants?

I can't find any certain evidence of an 'aged looking phase' in any of the above citations from Morgoth's Ring. Not that lack of evidence proves anything, however.

Inziladun wrote: I recall that the Silmarillion indicated that Maedhros having resided in Valinor was a factor in his recovery, and though Gwindor was a 'prince' in Nargothrond, I don't know that the same could be said of him.

That's true, but I think it's implied that Gwindor was Noldorin (and 'Flinding' had been a Gnome) -- although if he is never called an Exile specifically I suppose it's possible that this lord of Nargothrond had been born in Middle-earth.