WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And really I'm getting slightly bothered about the fact that you keep saying Nog was my & Shasta's first wolf-vote. Or do you know for sure that Mira and Morsul are innocent?

But if one of them is a wolf, you or Shasta can't be, so it doesn't matter. I don't quite get what's the problem here. Obviously we can only analyse possible wolf-on-wolf votes on known wolves, and given that there's only one wolf remaining, there can't be an unknown wolf on unknown wolf vote. So what's the fuss?

Originally Posted by Agan

And what do you mean by unsure? I read her posts and wrote what impressions I got. Then I made my conclusion about her based on the said impressions. I'm not sure she's guilty, but I just fail to see why appearing unsure when making an analysis is a sign of innocence.

People tend to flip-flop in their analyses even if they are more inclined to see somebody as either guilty or innocent. Your analysis was pretty condemning all along.

Originally Posted by Agan

What points are you talking about? When I said it's more likely Nog's fellow didn't try to save him, I didn't consider it something that would somehow incriminate me. You mean I shouldn't say anything that doesn't look entirely good on me because if I do it means I'm a wolf, even if it was helpful to us?

No! I didn't say that you presenting a point that puts you in bad light makes you evil, only that it doesn't speak for your innocence either. You would do that as an innocent as well as a wolf. If I ended up sounding it means you're evil it's simply because I remember wolf-Agans bringing up points harmful to the wolves in previous games. But if I use sense, you would of course come up with points like that as an innocent too. So I guess what I mean is that as the instances when you've brought up such points that I remember are from when you're a wolf the fact that you're doing it now reminds me of Wolf-Agan but if I think with reason it doesn't incriminate you (although it doesn't exonerate you either). Was that long enough explanation?

Originally Posted by Agan

Glirdy and sally pretty much slipped under my radar all the time - which you should know they wouldn't have done if I had been their fellow.

Which is not a good defense because as a wolf you could've pretended they did.

And no need to get so jumpy. *raises eyebrows*

PS. And I don't want to start an innocent-Agan vs innocent-Lommy argument (since we have avoided it this far, I'm actually surprised ) nor a wolf-Agan vs innocent-Lommy argument started by the person first mentioned to get people think it's another innocent-on-innocent row and thus makes them both look innocent.


edit: xed with everything since Brinn's first
edit2: marked a quote

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But if one of them is a wolf, you or Shasta can't be, so it doesn't matter.

Hmm that's true. It just sounded bad to my ear.

People tend to flip-flop in their analyses even if they are more inclined to see somebody as either guilty or innocent. Your analysis was pretty condemning all along.

It wasn't intentional and I tried to see both sides. I was slightly suspicious of Nerwen when I started doing the analysis but I don't think I let it affect it (rather, the analysis just backed up my suspicions)... If it's condemning it's because she looked more guilty than innocent.

If I ended up sounding it means you're evil it's simply because I remember wolf-Agans bringing up points harmful to the wolves in previous games.

You did and it annoyed me.

Which is not a good defense because as a wolf you could've pretended they did.

I could but I wouldn't have done that because it would've looked bad on me. But because you can't know my role for certain there's no use to talk about that - suffice to say, you'll see when the game ends (or I die).

And no need to get so jumpy. *raises eyebrows*

I wasn't jumpy, I was annoyed in a way nobody else can make me.

And I don't want to start an argument either, it just happened!

Anyway while Lommy was writing her charming little post I looked through the thread to see who had used their retractions, and I don't like the result very much... In addition to some dead people, only Lottie and me don't have ours left. Okay I suppose it could be worse too, if only a few refused to let go of theirs and there were more wolves left.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

given that there's only one wolf remaining, there can't be an unknown wolf on unknown wolf vote.

Sure it can. A wolf may vote himself.

Originally Posted by Agan

If you keep playing werewolf, some day you'll find out how it feels when everybody suspects you and uses everything you say against you even when you try to help. It's sometimes nicer to die right away than to stay alive and constantly top everybody's suspicion list. Makes one feel like a burden to the village, and in a way it's true because if everybody concentrates on the suspicious innocent, the real wolf gets to pass by unnoticed.

Yes, but why then play this game? Surely you can't expect people to trust you, unless they have a solid reason?

Edit: Agan: Lottie too still has hers left. I remember her retraction was late. Again, why is this a problem?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Yes, but why then play this game? Surely you can't expect people to trust you, unless they have a solid reason?

True but sometimes it gets out of proportions, and it can be really annoying when nobody listens to you. So I wouldn't say that getting frustrated means that Morsul is a baddie or very unhelpful. It's better for the village not to focus on a single suspect, and if Morsul's innocent, he's trying to sacrifice himself for the greater good.

Edit: Agan: Lottie too still has hers left. I remember her retraction was late. Again, why is this a problem?

Oh yes that's true. And it's not a problem, it's just something that should be kept an eye on. Just in case. In a game where the lynch is determined by who gets the biggest number of votes last, a single retraction made right before the deadline can mean a lot.

[Morsul the Dark]

Agan's... defending me

There are many reasons to vote oneself...

Frustration
For the greater good
to have a unanimous vote(Happened a few games ago)
and others...

My vote is definitely not out of frustration.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Agan's... defending me

There are many reasons to vote oneself...

Frustration
For the greater good
to have a unanimous vote(Happened a few games ago)
and others...

My vote is definitely not out of frustration.

And then your other post which talked about a "plan"... do you really want me to spell it out for the class, Morsul?

[Morsul the Dark]

why not?

1. Morsul thinks he's clever
2. Morsul isn't subtle
3. Morsul let's his plan slide

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

why not?

1. Morsul thinks he's clever
2. Morsul isn't subtle
3. Morsul let's his plan slide

Fine.

I think Morsul's the Unicorn and would like to trade him out, hopefully for Greenie.

[skip spence]

So either we have Morsul the Martyr or Morsul the Desperate Lone Wolf? Voting on him does seems like a win-win scenario and at the moment I'm willing to oblige.

But I'm also concerned about the lack of other serious candidates.

And Agan, wouldn't you save yourself by retracting and re-voting if you had the chance and it was your only chance? Regardless of the role?

Edit: To clarify, an innocent saving himself from being lynched by re-voting may also get the real wolf lynched and thus be good for the village.

[Aganzir]

Yeah Morsul wouldn't have thought so?

Originally Posted by skip spence

Voting on him does seems like a win-win scenario and at the moment I'm willing to oblige.

To me it doesn't because I believe we have a chance of getting a baddie (Nerwen)... And that reasoning would totally make me suspect you (skipwolf just wants an easy lynch!) if it wasn't for other things that make me think you more innocentish.

And Agan, wouldn't you save yourself by retracting and re-voting if you had the chance and it was your only chance? Regardless of the role?

Maybe but not necessarily. It would depend on the situation.

FYI, I'm trying to go through Nog's interactions with others in order to supplement Lommy's extensive wolf post analysis (mainly because I think it was a darn good way to do it ). However I'd love to go to sleep in half an hour so it might be I don't have to complete it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading, and can I just say I don't like how everyone is dismissing Morsul simply because of the way he acts? People change the ways they act all the time.

Alright then.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, I've seen a few things in Morsul's posts that are making me think something interesting.

++Morsul

I should be around (but distracted) for the next two hours or so, if something comes up.

[Brinniel]

winty: I just can't see him being a wolf. If he were one, he probably would've had more guidance on the first Days. He looks like a confused newbie innocent to me.

Mira: I don't suspect her because even with time constraints, I think she would be more devoted to the game as a wolf. I just can't see a Mira-wolf miss voting for two Days considering her participation would be more important than ever with all her packmates gone.

Aganzir: Scares me a little bit. I agree with some things she says and I think she made a good case against Nerwen. The problem is an Agan-wolf is capable of making brilliant cases against players in order to get them lynched (I would know). The only reason I'm leaning more towards innocence is that I'm not sure she would make such a strong case as a wolf when she needs to last several Days in order to win. If Nerwen turns out innocent, that would make Aganzir look bad which is not what a lone wolf wants when they need to survive three more Days to win.

Shasta: I'm very uncertain about him. It'd be interesting if he were a wolf, and I wouldn't put it past Nogrod to suspect his final packmate if he thought it would help. Of course, this tactic was already tried and failed, so maybe not. Reading Shasta's posts, there's nothing that jumps out at me as seriously suspicious, but I'm still not sure.

Nerwen: Suspicious. While her voting record may seem good, the timing on her votes is not. And the reasons she comes to for voting the wolves has been rather wishy-washy...she certainly hasn't been eager to lynch any of them. The open case she's done on me doesn't feel all that innocent...it's her hesitance that makes me skeptical.

Legate: I don't know. His posts often end up becoming a blur to me because they're so long, but from what I got reading, he seems genuine. But the problem is that Legate can be really sneaky...sometimes when he seems least suspicious, he turns out to be a wolf. I don't see any reason to suspect him right now, but I would just like to keep an eye on him.

Morsul: His behaviour in this game seems typical of him. I can't see him being so clever or bold to vote fellow wolves from early on and then toDay vote for himself to make himself look innocent. Those are some very risky moves for a wolf to make. I do think it's less likely he's a wolf and would rather not see him lynched toDay.

Skip: While he's done some suspicious things, his intentions behind his actions seem good and his words genuine. He could very well be a clever newbie wolf...I can see him pulling it off. I'm still leaning toward innocence, but I'm a little more unsure of it compared to other players in that category.

Lommy: I think she's innocent. I can't remember her having any hesitance in suspecting and voting for the wolves...I doubt a wolf would be so eager to lynch all her fellows and I don't think Lommy's the type who'd want to be a lone wolf. I also agree with her on many points, particularly the list post she made about other players. If Lommy is a wolf, I'd have to give her mad props because I just don't see the slightest bit of wolfishness in her.