The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers > Music in Middle-earth
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-13-2010, 11:03 AM   #1
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,349
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faramir Jones View Post
[B]Do you think that Tolkien's sanctioning of Donald Swan's interpretation of his works made it easier for later interpretations to be accepted by some fans?
Yes I do; precisely because Donald Swan's interpretation doesn't contain a harp or a lute, but (gasp) a piano, and a piano played very much in drawing-room style. I doubt we would have found a piano even in Rivendell. (Gondolin??) (Aman???) But if Tolkien could enjoy Swan's piano, perhaps other instruments might also be used besides those specifically mentioned in use by elven minstrels.

(Considering Daeron and Tinfang Warble, why so few flutes? Lingalad rules!)

Had I not heard piano played by Donald Swan, and blessed by The Prof, would I have accepted "The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green" by the Tolkien Ensemble? The piano works beautifully there. (And then once I wonder what growing up in Rivendell might have done to a young ranger's voice, Tolkien Ensemble's 'Voice of Aragorn' works better and better. )

Do I owe that to Swan? Perhaps. A very intriguing thought.
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.
mark12_30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 02:51 AM   #2
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 706
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Thumbs up Blessed by The Prof

Mark, I particularly liked what you said here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12_30 View Post
Had I not heard piano played by Donald Swan, and blessed by The Prof, would I have accepted "The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green" by the Tolkien Ensemble? The piano works beautifully there. (And then once I wonder what growing up in Rivendell might have done to a young ranger's voice, Tolkien Ensemble's 'Voice of Aragorn' works better and better. )

Do I owe that to Swan? Perhaps. A very intriguing thought.
I haven't heard the piece you mentioned, but, like you, have accepted for the same reasons the use of the piano in versions of Tolkien's songs and poems.

In terms of what Aragorn's upbringing in Rivendell might have done to his voice, that's an intriguing line of enquiry. Another example of a Man fostered by an Elvish ruler was Túrin, fostered by Thingol. While we know how badly things turned out there, the influence of this upbring was such that, later in Nargothrond, he was called Adanedhel, 'Elf-Man', because his speech and bearing were that of the Kingdom of Doriath.
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 04:45 PM   #3
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,349
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green: Song of Beren And Luthien

Berit Johansen

There are samples for the rest of the album as well.

Including The Ent and the Ent-Wife.

Unfortunately I can't find a link for Lebennin.

Song of Gondor
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

Last edited by mark12_30; 04-14-2010 at 04:53 PM.
mark12_30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2010, 03:52 PM   #4
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 706
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Thumbs up Thanks!

Mark, thanks for those links! I found the samples of music, including the ones you mentioned, well worth listening to.
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2010, 06:50 PM   #5
Nogrod
Flame of the Ainulindalë
 
Nogrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via MSN to Nogrod
This sure is something different and it might be something of just my imagination, but I have always thought this to be the real elvish music.

Rule of thumb concerning the link: at 0.40 it becomes really elvish (with the wind instrument coming in, a clarinet I presume), at about 1.40 it gets some air and finally from 2.10 onwards it starts to be what I think it should be - as elvish music. (Anouar Brahem is a Tunisian oud-player.)

I know this can be debated, but that's my idea of elvish music... making everything in Middle-Earth just Irish/ wanna-be Celtic or medieval catholic might go well with what we presume the prof. was as as a child of his times. But looking at his knowledge of different cultures I can't but think that we make a diservice to his legacy by limiting our imagination to just the Western tradition.

Had Tolkien heard of this...
__________________
Upon the hearth the fire is red
Beneath the roof there is a bed;
But not yet weary are our feet...
Nogrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 02:41 PM   #6
Bęthberry
Cryptic Aura
 
Bęthberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
That's an interesting idea and link, Nogrod. (Celtic I don't think need be limited to elven music, but could also apply to the The Shire, especially with folk dances.)

I think I can catch a haunting sense of reverie in the music, but I'd be interested in hearing what it is in Brahem's music that makes you think of elven music.
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.
Bęthberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 03:28 PM   #7
Nogrod
Flame of the Ainulindalë
 
Nogrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via MSN to Nogrod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry View Post
(Celtic I don't think need be limited to elven music, but could also apply to the The Shire, especially with folk dances.)
Well that's what I think as well. The celtic music (Irish, English), especially the folk-music, would be the hobbit stuff. But then the hobbits are no relatives to elves, so the elvish music shouldn't be the "upgareded" or "artsyfied" version of it (Enya-style, or the synthetizers and the pan-flute!) but to be "something completely different".

Quote:
I think I can catch a haunting sense of reverie in the music, but I'd be interested in hearing what it is in Brahem's music that makes you think of elven music.
To me it's the kind of meditativeness, the eerie feeling you can't quite fathom what it is... like is it sad or happy (without the major-minor tonality the middle-Eastern music tends to have that odd effect on an European), it sounds to me something both incorporeal and fleshy at the same time; like passion and otherworldliness in the same package. Something I could imagine the elves feeling towards this reality... Am I making any sense?
__________________
Upon the hearth the fire is red
Beneath the roof there is a bed;
But not yet weary are our feet...
Nogrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:54 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.